Justin Dunne on Bangkok's Red-Hot Culinary Scene [S8.E2]

Greg 00:00:05 On this episode, we dig into Thailand's fab scene with hospitality consultant Justin Dunn.

Ed 00:00:11 So if you've ever wondered what goes on behind the scenes in Thailand's five star hotels and Glitziest bars, you'll dig this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg 00:00:36 Sawa. This is the Bangkok podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 to try and introduce maple syrup into some Thai dishes for a new flavour. But I never seem to have enough left over to run the experiments.

Ed 00:00:50 I'm down for that, man. Yeah, and I met with an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract almost 25 years ago. Hard to believe fell in love with the drama of politics, as they say. If voting changed anything, it would be illegal. So I never left.

Greg 00:01:08 You are a drama queen.

Ed 00:01:10 When it comes to politics. I. I enjoy the sitting back with my popcorn. Let's just put it that way.

Greg 00:01:18 No shortage of that here.

Ed 00:01:19 True that.

Ed 00:01:20 We want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early. Behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics. On this week's super sized bonus show, we chatted about the foibles of relying too much on free technology you find online, which can often leave you backed into a corner. And of course, my insights into the recent government turbulence again, that saw the Thai prime minister being suspended by Thailand's Constitutional Court. To learn how to become a patron and get all this good stuff, plus full access to over 700, I think it's now 800. According to our data from last week to over 800 bonus and regular back episodes. Click the support button at the top of our website.

Greg 00:02:23 You're right, we got to update that number. That's old. That's old numbers. We've got to pump those numbers up over 800. That's right. Yeah. Thanks for the explainer on the bonus show. It was a good one. I wonder when something like this happens. Your students are probably sitting at home going like, oh my God, John, Ed's going to be he's going to be talking tomorrow so much.

Ed 00:02:40 Well it's funny. Yeah. Is that I'm not really supposed to be teaching Thai stuff, but I do use it as examples. So I used to totally I used to totally stay away from it. But now I do talk about it and try to draw parallels or usually a contrast. So it's normally American news that they're, you know, that they're like, oh my God, you know. Right, right. I'm gonna have to listen to China and talk about this.

Greg 00:03:04 Right. And no shortage of that either. Yeah. True. Busy guy.

Ed 00:03:06 True that.

Greg 00:03:08 Yeah. Also, don't forget, if you listen to us on Spotify, you can hear all of our bonus shows there as well.

Greg 00:03:13 If you're a patron, simply link your Patreon account to your Spotify account and add our new feed titled Bangkok Podcast Badass Patrons, only to hear the regular band bonus shows in the same place. Yep. So on this episode, we chat with a young fellow by the name of Justin Dunn, a long time ex-pats, especially those who love good food and fine wine. Probably know Justin's name, but for those who don't. I don't think it's unfair to say he's somewhat of an icon in Bangkok's fab scene. He was the GM of the legendary Bed Supper Club on Soi 11, which was named one of the top 100 clubs in the world back in the day. He's since lent his expertise to five star hotels, Michelin restaurants and all manner of nightclubs, bars and speakeasies in Southeast Asia. He was also a guest on season six, episode 24, talking about his side hustle. Bangkok haunts. Now my fine dining days are far behind me, but Justin is still going strong, so it was a pleasure to sit down with him and chat about Bangkok's fab scene.

Greg 00:04:06 The quality of service in Thailand. Why a good number of the best restaurants in the world are in Bangkok. And of course, whether or not the insane tipping culture in the West will ever make its way to Thailand. So here's my chat with our friend Justin Dunn.

Greg 00:04:26 Okay, well, I'm sitting here across the table from our old friend Justin Dunn. Justin, welcome back to the Bangkok Podcast.

Justin 00:04:33 Thank you. Good to be back.

Greg 00:04:34 You just very kindly bought me a little thing of Haagen-Dazs ice cream and, Bundaberg ginger beer.

Justin 00:04:39 It's the perfect match.

Greg 00:04:40 Yeah, he's a match made in heaven. And, the stuff from this ginger beer from Australia is really good stuff.

Justin 00:04:45 That is good stuff. Even this root beer, it's pretty carbonated, but pretty tasty as well.

Greg 00:04:49 The bottles. Anyway, you were previously a guest. I can't remember the this, the season or the episode right now, but you were talking about your ghost tours, Bangkok haunts?

Justin 00:04:58 Correct?

Greg 00:04:59 Yes and.

Justin 00:05:00 Yes. That was probably about two years ago.

Greg 00:05:01 Two years ago? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's great to see you again. And, you are always, on the ball with the haunted ghost stories and things like that. But I think what most people know you for is your husband, your FNB and hospitality experience. And you have a business called evolution 48, which is a FNB consultancy. Am I is that remotely correct?

Justin 00:05:21 It is, it is and it's it's it's what is my real job. Yeah. We the ghost tours stuff has always been a very passionate hobby. But my, my time here in, in Thailand and in Singapore has always been operating, running, opening, consulting on restaurants and bars.

Greg 00:05:39 Right now, I just thought it'd be really interesting, to sit down and chat about this. And you, you mentioned it when we had drinks a few weeks back. You said, hey, let's do a show about this stuff because it's constantly evolving space. Bangkok is one of the world's leading food cities.

Greg 00:05:55 Thai food is is a darling of anyone, really. And, there's a lot, a lot, a lot to talk about, about the evolving fab scene in Bangkok. And as also we talk about how Covid changed things and, how things are changing and evolving. And just thinking back to when I first got here in 2001, I mean, international food was lasagna at the Italian joint at the end of the supermarket, right? It wasn't really as, as, as, international as it is now. So, you just went over a quick list with me and talked about how Bangkok had six of the top 50 restaurants in the world.

Justin 00:06:36 Yep.

Greg 00:06:37 And why?

Justin 00:06:38 Why that? What's changed a lot has changed. Well, I mean, Thailand has always been super, super food centric. It is a culture that grows up paying attention to food. More so than than than a lot of other cultures, at least within the US. We pay attention a little bit, but nothing like any time I did tastings in my restaurants.

Justin 00:06:58 I always loved getting feedback from the the Thai, the Thai staff because they were so keenly fine tuned. Their palates were amazing just because they pay attention to food so much. But a lot of things have changed. It's obviously a lot changed when Michelin came in several years ago and all of a sudden, you know, from from the get go, Bangkok and Thailand, several other cities really started popping up quite a bit. So so there was there was a tremendous amount of momentum for, for Bangkok landing on the map. But with this most recent award with six of the restaurants, you know, the this the global award, six of the restaurants being here in Bangkok really solidifies that. Bangkok is the culinary capital of the world. You know, I think it's been debatable for a long time. Was it Is it Paris? Is it? Is it New York? Is it Mexico City? Is it? Is it Jakarta? Is it Singapore? But no, man. It is now very, very clear that Bangkok has become the culinary capital of the world.

Justin 00:08:01 And and, you know, these are these are high end restaurants that are getting awarded. But it's it goes so much further than that as well. It's even a lot of mid-tier restaurants are really turning out fine, fine products here. and then also, you know, with Chef Pam being awarded the also here in 2025, the best female chef in the world, you know, with with Patong and again her restaurant having the the highest entry level I believe ever for a restaurant to be to be to jump up to I mean to just jump into the list at number 13 already. It's sorry. Sorry us sorry. France. Sorry Mexico. Thailand is winning. in particular Bangkok.

Greg 00:08:44 Yeah. Is it, is it, is it a lot of these restaurants that are in their top six or are they run managed and the head chefs Thai or what? What makes them enter into the top six? Top 50?

Justin 00:08:56 Sorry. Yeah. Let me think. I'd have to go through that list. I mean, Patong is is Thai female? Gagan is obviously Indian.

Justin 00:09:04 Oh, yes. who else is on that list?

Greg 00:09:07 I remember I went to Gagan when he first opened years ago, and he was he asked me to come on and sort of talk about it on my blog. Back when I had a blog and I was I almost wanted to say, really? Have you? I've got like nine visitors a week. My mom is four of them. but he still invited me out to his restaurant, and it was just it was my first experience with five Star dining, and it was incredible.

Justin 00:09:30 Yeah, I remember doing that as well. And I remember kind of, you know, it was it was I think at that time it was the ten course tasting menu. Yes. And man, I could, I could smell, I could smell curry. But I'm like, when's the curry going to come. When's the curry. The little gels kept coming out and little foams kept coming out. I'm like, man, can I get a non?

Greg 00:09:46 Yeah.

Justin 00:09:47 But I'm looking at it.

Justin 00:09:48 I mean it's, it's it's a mix. You know Soren is Soren is is tie but suffering is not. right. So it's it's a real mix but again it Ladue. Ladue is tie. It's it's a mix, but it leans. I'm trying to think what I'll do is afterwards I'll get I'll give that breakdown entirely. You know how many, how many is actually tying? I'm guessing that it's probably about. Of that six. I'm guessing about 60% this time.

Greg 00:10:20 Even more than that, though, I think it's interesting to talk about why Bangkok? Because the city gives an energy to its culinary scene. Right. And and what what about Bangkok makes it such a good place for to to draw these, like, megastars of the culinary scene?

Justin 00:10:36 Yeah. Good question. I mean, I always sort of thought that the the culinary scene changed a lot when when Soul Food came in, and I think that was about 2011. You know, the culinary scene had always been very strong, but it has sort of been centered around kind of central, central Bangkok.

Justin 00:10:56 And you always had a lot of street food and that was there. But I don't really remember restaurants really gaining a lot of international exposure until until Jarret Risley came on and came on and opened up. So for me, I may be wrong in that, or my memory may be a little fuzzy, but for some reason that period of time seemed to be when the culinary scene really popped off. You know, that was all of a sudden a little further out that wasn't in town law. it was a Thai restaurant, but done by a ex-pat. And we'd seen that before with Chef David Thompson, you know, with Nam. And that was always very, you know, heavy accolades. But I don't remember it Were really popping off until I guess around 2011, 2012. To the point where all of a sudden you had people coming in to Bangkok, particularly for restaurants. Interesting. I mean, street food has always been there, and that's always been a big part of coming to Thailand, in large part because it's tasty.

Justin 00:11:58 It's great. It's Thai food and it's inexpensive, but to where people all of a sudden were spending a lot more time and money specifically going to restaurants. I'm trying to think if, you know, even before Nam, I mean, you have the Mandarin Oriental and you had those restaurants, you had the bamboo bar, and, you know, those are all classic, classic, iconic restaurants or even things like Wrong Mahal or these restaurants that have been there for. Right. Yeah, yeah. You know, even Wrong Mahal is now closed. But, you know, we have these we've got these iconic restaurants that Bangkok has seen disappear bit by bit. and I don't know if that plays into things, I. Or it might just be what the whole evolution of food shows. You know everything with the Food Channel and, you know, all of a sudden chefs were starting to do a little bit in the rise of social media, I think.

Greg 00:12:50 Sort of see a guy on TV wearing black latex gloves, you're like, oh, that guy must be serious.

Justin 00:12:54 Damn right, damn right. You know, surprisingly, we were just talking about that with some of the the other day that chefs. Now, you know, traditionally chefs have gone through a very strong training program, a very strong hierarchical program in the kitchen that's now changed a lot with with social media. You know, chefs now or a lot of them are self-taught. A lot of them are doing YouTube videos and sort of getting getting a little bit of a following there. Chefs these days are now as much content creators as they are anything else? I mean.

Greg 00:13:24 Maybe you trace back all the way back to Anthony Bourdain shows, like.

Justin 00:13:27 Absolutely. I think.

Greg 00:13:28 In his book, Kitchen Confidential became a massive bestseller.

Justin 00:13:31 And and his interest in Southeast Asian cuisine. You know, he had come to Thailand a couple of times. I mean, I even remember him going into the Holiday Inn and Chiang Mai. I mean, I'm familiar with that hotel, so I could recognize it. But he said, the first thing you do when you come into a city, check in and then leave the hotel.

Justin 00:13:49 but his interest in Vietnam and Thailand, sort of helped helped all of us as far as Southeast Asia interest and so much emphasis on food. It's it's shocking how how food has become such a big deal in, in Thailand, in Southeast Asia.

Greg 00:14:09 I went into the restaurant, he ate with Barack Obama, and I think it was Hanoi. Was it Ho Chi Minh?

Justin 00:14:14 It's annoying. Hanoi.

Greg 00:14:15 Yeah. And, yeah, they have the table now roped off with a big glass cube over it. And the utensils and beer they drank sitting there.

Justin 00:14:23 So, like the Mona Lisa of Hanoi is.

Greg 00:14:26 You got to go rope it off.

Justin 00:14:28 Take a picture. And there you are. But that's a great. Yeah, it's that valuable. will. It's that it's roped off.

Greg 00:14:35 It's the first not the first time, but I think it's it's a very clear example of celebrity being injected into just putting stuff into your face.

Justin 00:14:44 Indeed, indeed. And it's weird when you talk about the celebrities and the big names of of Bangkok culinary scene.

Justin 00:14:51 I mean, in Chi-Chi has always been there, and obviously David Thompson was really one of the first big names. I think I started to come across when I moved here, you know, in the mid 2000 and, and but that was kind of different because it was all of a sudden it was a frog doing Thai food.

Greg 00:15:08 Controversial at the.

Justin 00:15:09 Time, super controversial. And David, probably Chef Thompson, took a lot of heat for that because it's that was that was kind of that was very taboo and controversial at the time. But whereas now I would say he's should be credited for really helping break down a lot of what's going on at the moment.

Greg 00:15:28 One thing you said was interesting, I thought, was when you said when when Soul Food came in to Jared's restaurant and he and actually Charlie Carter had been on the show before too. Okay. Really interesting. But,

Justin 00:15:38 And I don't know if that's, but for some reason, in my mind that just seemed to be all of a sudden when people ask, what are you doing this weekend? I'm going out to this restaurant.

Justin 00:15:49 I'm going out to this bar.

Greg 00:15:51 I've never heard that really before. But also it's interesting around that time is, if you remember, just across from Soul Food on, on, across the street on Sukhumvit 38, there used to be that really fantastic street food hub, and it was for years. It was one of my favorite places to go because it had everything. It had noodles, it had mango and fruit and shakes and all kinds of Thai food. And then I think that sort of coincided with the Thai government, the Bangkok government, starting to shut those places down, or they just were shut down because the condo was built there. The land became too expensive. So you say that around the same time, restaurants started to becoming more like soul food. But I remember roughly around the same time that the local street food scene started to become a little less.

Justin 00:16:38 Yeah, it's interesting because when you mentioned Sukhumvit 38 that that was a destination street food. And, you know, I remember after work the teams would want to go to Sukhumvit 38.

Justin 00:16:47 Right. And, and you know, maybe we were sort of starting to define a little bit of it now. I mean, because restaurants have always been there for sort of special occasions. You know, we had the, the premium restaurants for, for special occasions, but maybe that was around that time. 2010, 2011, 2012 was all of a sudden people were just starting to head out to restaurants for not so special occasions, but just for that overall guest experience. Right. And, and and maybe maybe it's some I'd love to I'd love someone to kind of dive in a little bit more to the historical side of, of the evolution of cuisine in Thailand and where things really started to change. Yeah, I would love to do a project like that to to see am I accurate? I really don't know. There might have been a lot going on that I don't recall, but for some reason that just seemed to be about that time where all of a sudden restaurants with a specific location in a specific neighborhood started to really become a lot more popular.

Greg 00:17:52 Right.

Justin 00:17:52 I think you're right. Yeah.

Greg 00:17:53 I want to ask you about, QR codes used for payment in Thailand, and I'm a big fan of them. I know some of our friends, some of our mutual friends are not. Yeah. but I think that they're they're very, very handy. But I always kind of think that the, the servers are the ones who are getting screwed, because even though Thailand doesn't have a big tipping culture, if someone brings me a bill and it's 422.44 bot, I'm going to scan the QR code and type 424.44 or whatever it was into into the phone because I imagine at the end of the night, they've got to reconcile their receipts and match them up to the tables and stuff. I don't know how it works, but I'm thinking back in the day when I paid with cash, I would just give him 450 bought and the server got to keep the change. Yeah. What's how has how has that changed the landscape of things here?

Justin 00:18:41 Okay, good. I mean I can, I can.

Justin 00:18:44 These are my favorite topics in the whole world. I can talk about tipping and QR codes. It's it's it really what what drives me. There's a couple things on QR codes. After Covid, a lot of restaurants started, started using QR codes to help help just a depleted staff in ordering. Generally, people didn't like it too much. Just everyone still wanted a little bit of that personalized service of somebody coming over and taking an order. Right. I was okay with them because a lot of times the service staff was pretty weak and the QR code helped. But where do we start to see now? And I sort of always point to Starbucks in this situation. A tremendous number of Starbucks now have gone On cash lists. You know where payment is strictly out there with a card or a QR code. So? So. So we're no longer paying in cash, at least not only Starbucks, but but Starbucks is the big one because a lot of them have gone cashless. And it's it's one of the points that I've pointed out about Starbucks.

Justin 00:19:40 I've I've sort of encouraged other restaurant owners and restaurant people to, to really keep an eye on Starbucks staff. If you're looking for well-trained, professional staff, because they're always pleasant, they're always pretty friendly. And I find that they're always pretty, pretty helpful and knowledgeable. But in in recent months and years, their tips have been reduced by 60 to 70%. Wow. You know, with with nobody. Because with the QR code payment or the credit card, there's no longer a tipping system. And granted, Thailand is not this the it's not the US system of mandatory tipping. But there's still there's there's some money to be made there from 20 bot, ten bot 50 bot, baht, whatever it may be, that is now gone. You know, it's still kind of makes me. It's, you know, it's piqued my interest that there's oftentimes at Starbucks or some of the other restaurants that have gone cash cashless, that there's still a cash tip jar at the counter. Right. Yeah. And then the other flip side of that, that doesn't get really talked about too much, is one of the reasons why a lot of these restaurants have gone cashless.

Justin 00:20:45 It's twofold. I mean, it does save a lot of time and energy. At the end of the night, you're not having to to count as much cash. You're not having to run to the bank as much. but there is a part of it that is about you're removing the cash fear of theft from your staff as well. So? So the management is sort of saying one of the reasons we've gone cashless is because we don't trust our team as much, which is another, you know, if you're losing 60 to 70% a tip and you've got your management team, for example, Starbucks sort of underhanded, saying, you know, we don't trust you with cash. I'm like, man, good restaurants got to go after go after those guys. Because I think a lot of, you know, or or that or maybe Starbucks needs to start a union here. And each time.

Greg 00:21:30 It went well.

Justin 00:21:30 In the U.S., it sure did. but yeah, it's I think people are really torn about this cashless system.

Justin 00:21:38 You know, you see, people worry about their being tracked and their finances are being tracked and, and all of that. I get it, I get it. I we've really become accustomed to to not paying as much with cash and not going to the ATM all the time. And that's become a little bit easier. But I think really the hybrid that still works for a lot of people and I'm talking menus as well, you know, a lot of, you know, some places will only do a QR code menu, and that pisses off a lot of people.

Greg 00:22:05 Yeah, I'm not a big fan of it, so I'll deal with it, but I don't like it.

Justin 00:22:08 Yeah. So so I think the happy medium is sort of a hybrid, you know, have a couple of hard copy menus for people that want to to touch and see and feel and be able to read the menu and sort of see how see how the menu ties into the greater concept of the restaurant. And there's other people that are really quite happy with the QR code and not not touching a menu.

Justin 00:22:28 but but it has been pretty contentious. And I do see people sometimes that, you know, do not want to visit a restaurant that has gone completely cash free and only QR codes. yeah.

Greg 00:22:41 I think ultimately the servers are the ones that are getting getting stiffed there.

Justin 00:22:46 But I agree too. And you know, that brings up another point about about tipping. I mean, it's weird how even though most places now have gone have gone cashless, more and more places do have these tip jars on the counter. you know, and it's not just restaurants anymore. It might be your it could be your hairdresser, or it could be the car dealership, or it could be somebody said they saw a tip jar at the hospital the other day. It's they're popping up everywhere.

Greg 00:23:10 Grab drivers.

Justin 00:23:10 Grab.

Greg 00:23:11 Drivers stuck to the console between the seats.

Justin 00:23:14 And I'm fascinated by it because I don't I don't see it generating a whole lot of revenue for for the teams. In fact, there's a, there's a I won't I won't say the name, although I kind of want to but there's a we'll just call it a juice stand at that.

Justin 00:23:28 They've got a little tip jar there that nobody ever clears it out. In fact, I see receipts in it sometimes. So it becomes a kind of thing.

Greg 00:23:34 It's garbage. It's garbage. I see, I see like.

Justin 00:23:38 The lowest denomination of foreign currency in there. It's like stuff people don't want. I've seen I was I was at a, you know, I'm gonna go ahead and say the name. I don't think, you know, I was at a subway the other day. Can I say names of restaurants? Yeah, I was at a subway the other day. And, you know, there's a there's only a single tongue in the in the tip jar.

Greg 00:23:55 It's almost insulting.

Justin 00:23:56 It's in the US. That's that's punches are being thrown.

Greg 00:23:59 Yeah.

Justin 00:23:59 It's. You don't. That's the biggest insult you can get. Yeah. It's worse than no tip is a is a is the denomination of the lowest value. you know, imagine, you know, making a foot long meatball and a warm oatmeal cookie and somebody throws you something that has the value of 3/10 of a penny.

Justin 00:24:18 I mean, is that adding to anybody's take home salary? And it's just weird because I don't I don't see the teams on the ground paying a lot of attention to it as well. So it's it's a weird dynamic. And and from that, what's also a weird scenario here is if you go into any, any sort of just about any restaurant there's other than perhaps street food, you're going to have a, you're going to have the, the 7% and the 10% and the 10% is your is your service charge. And that has always been a little bit of a gray area. But I, I think I've always interpreted as a bit of a forced tip of 10%. And then it's it's not legal. I mean, it's not it's not legalized how it gets distributed, it's kind of up to the owners in different places. So, you know, sometimes it's given back to the staff entirely. Sometimes maybe a little bit of the service charge is taken out for breakage or a staff party or whatever it may be, maybe some some training, that sort of thing.

Justin 00:25:15 Or I've seen places keep it. So there's there's no real standardization. But for the majority of the time it does go back. but what I start to see now is especially if you go into a hotel and pay, it's got service charge. And if you pay with a credit card, it also will come back with a blank line that says tip. And I'm like, oh, hang on a second. This is this is getting into us kind of territory for me.

Greg 00:25:43 If I pay 10%, I don't feel like I need to do.

Justin 00:25:46 That's how most people would. I think that is how most people interpret that as do I. It's sort of it's sort of the tip that's on top. But anytime people see something blank that says tip, there's a there's a feeling of bit of obligation there as well. Right. and if you question the staff on it, you get some really different answers. You know, it's usually the answer kind of goes something like this. Oh, service charge goes to everybody, but the tip goes just to the restaurant.

Greg 00:26:14 It's interesting because there's the Asian cultural element of losing face to, and you don't want to come off to in your face about it, or you don't want to say the wrong thing or make it sound too easy or something.

Justin 00:26:26 Yeah, well, what I will say about service charge and I've, you know, I've upset rooms full of people by suggesting this sometimes. And this is, you know, I have to understand that my own views on things are sometimes very biased just because I, I grew up working for tips, and I thought the tipping system was pretty good, was pretty healthy. It's not. I will say the US tipping system now is broken.

Greg 00:26:46 It's crazy.

Justin 00:26:47 But back when I back when I was tending bar and waiting tables, it was it was an it was a system that encouraged speed, efficiency, knowledge and hustle. And I think we all kind of liked that. Yeah. and it was a system that sort of rewarded the people that really busted their tail. And I've always been critical of the service charge in, in Thailand, where it's 10%, where when it's distributed evenly, you've got your A players making just as much service charge as your C players.

Justin 00:27:16 And while there's some beauty in that, there's some real beauty in that. People are more equal. You know, it's not so competitive. We're like, I want my share. I want I want more than the other guy. That's that's a, that's a very American greed based system. But but I will say, you know, salaries are not equal. Bonuses are not equal. And I've always wondered if would would service in Thailand be stronger if service charge was Alto was also weighted, you know by the by the a players getting a larger percentage of service charge and the C players, the players are not quite so strong getting a little less and and then, then then the service charge becomes a bit of a of an incentive, a motivational. So much like it was in the US. You bust your tail, you make more money. Right? But I, I'm, I'm dipping into very strong cultural differences. And it's it's weird what stays with you for so long, right? But I can acknowledge the beauty and a more equal and balanced system.

Justin 00:28:21 But I'm also sometimes wanting guys, let's let's hustle, let's hustle, let's let's go, let's go, let's go. And and that's hard to do sometimes if there's not a greater incentive, whether it be financial or other.

Greg 00:28:32 It's along the same lines. One thing you said earlier about the about Starbucks, about training. this is some something that I noticed a long time ago, many years ago when I was working at Agoda. they had a couple of coffee shops in the lobby, and there was a Thai coffee shop chain, which will remain nameless next to a Starbucks coffee shop chain. Right. And if you go up to the. And the coffee from the Taiwan was fine, and you go up to them and you'd like way to the counter and there'll always be some woman, like ducking down behind the counter, picking her zits, or doing her friend's hair, or they wouldn't notice you and you had to say Kotoka, but, you know, it was very hit and miss.

Justin 00:29:08 There's no bell at the counter.

Greg 00:29:10 Right, right. And then you go to Starbucks and it's. Everyone had a script. They knew exactly where to go, how to do it, how long it should take, what to say. And it was just bam, bam, bam. And the difference was very stark. And you're like, that's the difference between a really well trained, coordinated staff and one that's just told, this is how you make a coffee, go take care of the customers. One thing I also have noticed over the past little while past few years, and I'm not the only one, is the amount of Burmese staff in Thai restaurants. And I think what I heard, and what I agree with, is that they are almost always superb. They've got great table table manners. You know, rapport with their with their customers at the tables. Their English is very good and they seem to want to hustle more. But that's just my experience. What do you say.

Justin 00:29:58 No it's it's it's it's par for the course.

Justin 00:30:01 I think it was I think it was some of the, I guess we can say some some of the brands. I think it's okay. I think it was it was Sunrise Tacos that initially was given a lot of credit for bringing in some Filipino staff to kind of help elevate the service and things. You know, this was several years ago, but in recent years, the the relationships between Myanmar and Thailand, Burma and Thailand has made it much easier for Burmese staff to work legally with a sort of a it's a work permit of sorts. Okay. And and absolutely the the Burmese staff, when I had one, when I had the bottling trust, we had a couple and they were they're steady, durable, diligent. They were sort of the the industrial athletes. They were there the entire six years. oftentimes English is also stronger. Yeah. And so yeah, it's just it's, you know, it's it's it's just sometimes playing that fine line between, you know, how many can you have? You know, you've still got to have your your ratio of Thai nationals to foreign and I can't I can't recall how that how that affects some of the, the Myanmar, the Burmese nationals.

Justin 00:31:13 But that's everyone will pretty much say that that's an agreement that the the Burmese staff are stronger.

Greg 00:31:21 Interesting, interesting small trivia note to when Greg opened the first Sunrise Tacos location on Sukhumvit. The very first episode of the Bangkok Podcast was recorded in his back office.

Justin 00:31:32 Okay, okay. It's a tiny back office because that's for like over near where Sukhumvit 12 is now.

Greg 00:31:38 Exactly.

Justin 00:31:38 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And that was the first location that had I think they had a couple Filipino staff. They had some in the kitchen and they had some on the front, front of the house. And that sort of raised some eyebrows because, oh, hang on a second. You know, the staff is is fluent in English, had pretty good service skills. And all of a sudden people were sort of taking note of, it's not always just tie. Front of house staff. Oh, and how that changes the dynamic and and also ruffles a lot of feathers. Yeah.

Greg 00:32:09 Yeah. Well, we were recording with pantyhose stretched over cross-stitch frames, so it was a different time.

Justin 00:32:14 Right. That's great.

Greg 00:32:17 One of the things that, that you've also done is you sometimes put out these lists of things that you want. I'm not sure what to call the things you want to see from the fab industry that year. And there's always some really like, sort of deep thoughts by Justin kind of thing and, very deep. One of them you talk about. one of the ones you just sent out a few months back was, you talk about ketchup. And I always joke because when I run out of ketchup at home, it's a saying. Is it easier for me to go and buy a bottle from the grocery store, or should I just order a pizza because it's going to come with 75 packets? Exactly.

Justin 00:32:52 I this is sort of, sort of some of the beauty in the charm of Thailand. If you order a pizza and even if you say you don't want ketchup, you're sure to get 12 packets of ketchup. Yet if you order a burger in a restaurant and you order two fries, you know ketchup is a real integral part of French fries.

Justin 00:33:12 I love French fries, but I love French fries even more with the savory, rich, deep flavor of of a ketchup. Yeah, but restaurants seem to not understand that there needs to be a an equal balance of fries to catch up. You know, you seem to always run out of ketchup. Sort of half, maybe not even halfway. But then you're you're at a conundrum. You're. Do I ask for more ketchup or are they going to charge me for more ketchup? Is it just too much of a hassle? Am I the greedy bastard for wanting more ketchup? But why don't restaurants just give more ketchup? You know, the pizza guys are more than happy to do it. Why are restaurants so stingy with their ketchup?

Greg 00:33:50 I got an egg salad sandwich from Starbucks a while ago. Not my first choice, but they do a solid egg salad sandwich and I asked for a and I came with a packet of ketchup and I said, can I have some more ketchup? And they gave me one more packet and I'm like, can I have like three more please? And the guy looked at me like I had asked for a free egg salad sandwich.

Justin 00:34:07 Well, it's funny you say that because I was at, I was flying to I went to an FMB conference last week and was flying out of the airport. It was early morning, so I stopped in at McDonald's and I ordered the pancakes. They now charge for maple syrup. What?

Greg 00:34:21 Damn those sons of bastards.

Justin 00:34:23 14. I guess I mean, I did, I, I actually don't know if I ordered it or not. Actually, no, I must have, I must have, so I guess I, I didn't really pay attention, but I must have been charged an extra 14.

Greg 00:34:34 But let me tell you, one of the fringe benefits of having a podcast and, pronouncing our love of maple syrup so much is that every once in a while we get a friendly, generous listener who brings a half liter of Bangkok or a maple syrup to us as a gift, which is.

Justin 00:34:48 Yeah, yeah, maybe we should talk about something else. I've heard you love champagne. Like really expensive champagne.

Greg 00:34:53 Big fan of Ferraris, right?

Justin 00:34:55 Right, right. Let's see, let's see. Let's give it a go.

Greg 00:34:57 Another thing on your list is the relationship that, You'll have to guide me here. A restaurant manager or host brings to the the ambience of an excellent dining experience.

Justin 00:35:11 Yeah, I know, I know what you're referring to. It's it's things. I mean, the whole industry was really tossed on its head with Covid. It was a real, real challenging, tragic time for for many different reasons. And and one of the things that happened to hotels, restaurants is everyone was looking to reduce their manning just to save costs and, and see where they could trim, trim where possible. And during that process, there's a lot of people that weren't quite qualified to be promoted, were being promoted because you may have still needed to fill a position. And where I've seen this, a significant amount in, in restaurants is I see supervisors of the front of house supervisors in restaurants have been promoted to restaurant managers.

Justin 00:35:54 Okay. And they're just not ready for it. A restaurant manager really needs to be the. The DNA, the soul, the face of a restaurant. They are the ones that are building up your repertoire of regular guests and encouraging loyal guests and being able to say hi to a lot of people. Being able to really banter. Being able to make really strong recommendations. Saying hi to people. Sort of. Sort of a host, sort of a maitre d, all mixed in. One is what your restaurant manager. And being able to read a statement and being able to to motivate and encourage and train and hire staff. But it.

Greg 00:36:27 Sounds complicated.

Justin 00:36:28 It I mean, the whole industry is just wildly complicated and really challenging. It's never it's never boring. But it's a it's a challenging industry. And where I see that a lot of restaurants in and it's not just particular to Thailand, it's sort of all over the world. Our restaurant managers are just not as strong as they used to be, because we've taken supervisors and promoted them to be restaurant managers and they're just not ready for it.

Justin 00:36:55 Like, there's there's risks all over town. I could walk into a restaurant and still not really be certain who the restaurant manager is, and that that really hurts the operation, the ambiance, the just, the overall comfort and confidence level of a restaurant to to not have those figures that used to be there that were the that were the face of a restaurant. Right. It's that's gone now.

Greg 00:37:20 I remember years ago and this was going back quite a bit, but I don't even know if it's there anymore. But when the first real, bagel place opened BC bagels at the bottom of the. What's the tower there with the FCC is.

Justin 00:37:35 Oh, I know exactly. That's. Oh, it's like Manila.

Greg 00:37:37 Manila manila. Yeah, I think so. I think so, yeah.

Justin 00:37:39 A branch of is right here now.

Greg 00:37:41 Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, when they first opened, it was the only one. And their head chef manager guy was Brock. And he was fantastic and he was funny and personable and knowledgeable and just a great guy.

Greg 00:37:55 And you got that sense of energy from the place when you walked in. Everything from how the menu on the chalkboard menu on the wall was written to his banter with you, to how you would order. And then after a few years, he left and there was a noticeable shift in how you felt inside the restaurant.

Justin 00:38:14 And that's a big and that's sort of what I'm talking about, is just where our restaurants are missing that key personality, that key, that key sole person, the face of a restaurant. And, you know, a lot of the hotels I work with, the ones that I see that do really well, are the ones that have very little turnover and little, very few. I mean, as a whole, the industry, this is a crazy number as a whole in the industry. Year on year sees about an 80% turnover.

Greg 00:38:41 Oh my God.

Justin 00:38:42 Somebody somebody hired in in January probably doesn't make it as far as December at least if you hire 100 new people, 80 of them will potentially be gone by by December.

Greg 00:38:52 So just go to a new restaurant or out of the whole industry.

Justin 00:38:54 They it's both. It's here in Thailand. It's probably moving over to another restaurant or, or opening their own coffee shop or deciding to, to work for a grab or, or line man and just, just a little bit more freedom. And I totally get that. It's it's, but where I see restaurants that really thrive are ones that still have the same team year in and year out because they're not forced to start from zero. Every single time you turn over and it's it's the properties that I work with and it's a handful, but it's one of the things that I always point out as to why they're working is they've established the chemistry amongst the team, and they're just not having to start from scratch every time a key person leaves because they're just not leaving. It's real, real magic. I mean, if you were if you were to ask me what one of the key success stories of Bet Supper Club was, you know, during my time there was we had no turnover.

Justin 00:39:51 You know, the kitchen staff, the kitchen staff was the same kitchen staff from day one all the way till the end. You know, the owners were present. The owners were were there greeting guests all the time. I was there for seven and a half years. I've. I've never been that long in another place since then. You know, our restaurant managers, our our matrices, just about everybody was there for a long time and it helped create an emotional engagement with the guests. And to this day, I've never seen a place that has the strong, that has a has a strong of an emotional attachment as bed supper Club did. People felt as if they were part owners. They were that emotionally engaged with it. It was something I've yet to see with some of the other places I've helped out with.

Greg 00:40:39 For those that don't know the listeners who are younger, they might not remember what bed supper club, but back in the day, what was that about 2006 2007.

Justin 00:40:45 I, I.

Justin 00:40:46 I started working in 2005 and left in 2012. And some people would say that the heyday of Bangkok was those years, 2008 to 2011. So it was in that time it was the Q bar days.

Greg 00:40:59 So back, back in the day on 11, before it was taken over by drug gangs and guys selling dildos on card tables.

Justin 00:41:06 And Volkswagen vans.

Greg 00:41:07 Yeah, there was Volkswagen vans, there was bed supper club and there was Q bar, and they were the places to go. And that was that was really cool. But they were magnets for for everyone.

Justin 00:41:19 It really was. It's, it's, you know, if we go down that road, it was a real magical time. but it was also, you know, it's it's part of the, the restaurants that work and restaurants that don't work. It's, it's there's no real clear science. So 11 I mean, I've always given Q bar a lot of credit for the reason Bed Supper Club worked because they Q bar was there for a couple of years earlier, and they helped establish Established.

Justin 00:41:42 Sorry, 11 is a real go to place, but it was also interesting. One of the stories I always remember is one of the owners, Sonya, had told me that, you know, even though Bed Supper Club ran for 11 years, it once the mandatory pee test came in as early as 2004. That was one of the first shifts of a real demographic in Thailand. You know, a lot of places had really lost out of the real creme. Creme cream of the crop. Hi. So, just because that crowd got scared off.

Greg 00:42:15 Talking about police busting in and testing everywhere.

Justin 00:42:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good to clarify that.

Greg 00:42:19 Yeah.

Justin 00:42:20 It wasn't it wasn't.

Greg 00:42:21 It wasn't a qualification of employment.

Justin 00:42:24 Right.

Greg 00:42:24 It was the you want to work here you've got to do a test. Right. So wrapping things up here I just want to also touch on something you mentioned and that's grab and you know back in the day the rule was if you want to find a good local place, go find a place that's full of local people to eat at.

Greg 00:42:38 But that's not really the case anymore. Now you look for a place that's got a bunch of dudes and green jackets standing outside waiting to take the food away. So true. How has grab shifted the FMB scene here?

Justin 00:42:48 It's you know, one of the things about the FMB industry, the food and beverage industry, is how dynamic and changing it changes quickly, not just with the restaurants, but also marketing and and partners and collaborations as well. It's it's wild how quickly it can change. And you know, and it's weird too because food delivery has always been here in Bangkok. You know, we used to have that food by phone. I think it was back in the day. I don't remember that, but they just didn't have whatever it was to kind of take it over. And they didn't have Covid either, where things really kicked off. But it's it's a it's it's changed the a couple of things have changed the industry in that way. One is GG. It's you know, if you go to a place like home out and, you know, deep, deep and long, that's hard to find unless you've got a GG.

Justin 00:43:33 You know, I had even gone to a place in LA where, where if I didn't have my GG, I would have given up even with the GPS. I almost gave up. Just because it's a hard place to find. All of a sudden you see these houses popping up that would have never survived ten years ago just because they were too far off the beaten path. Whereas GPS has really opened up. You can put something out anywhere, whereas whereas the delivery guys have changed things. Is is wild. It's, you know, you see a lot of places that do okay, but a couple, a couple places that I consult for, they do up to 60% of their revenue comes from, from grab.

Greg 00:44:10 And on top of that you got to think about grabs.

Justin 00:44:12 Cut to and and that's that's that's a nice segue. It's I think a lot of the commissions that grab it, it's upwards of 30 to 35% depending on which company you work with and how much volume you do. I think it's always negotiable, but a lot of times if you're first starting, you get your foot in the door and nobody knows you and you don't have a lot of volume, and yet you're probably looking at 30 to 35% commission, which is steep.

Justin 00:44:37 But I also give credit to the crab guys because they do a tremendous amount. I mean, the marketing side of things is, is without them, nobody's going to be able to potentially find you. But I've always argued that restaurants should negotiate a little bit because these grab guys are driving down one way streets, they're driving on sidewalks. They're they're eating the pizza in route. They're they're popping wheelies on, on, you know, and it's it's kind of your brand. Your brand is being affected by the delivery nature of these grab drivers. And when I see these guys, you know, I live on a street that's one way here in the morning. And I see these grab guys come down and stop at the croissant shop and keep going. I'm like, man, take these images and go to your go to your grab rep and say, hey guys, I'll tell you what, you lower my commission in return for stronger driving etiquette from your guys. You know, if I keep seeing your guys run red lights, I'm going to come back to you and I want you to take off 3% each time I can show you.

Justin 00:45:35 interesting, I mean, but I come at that from that angle. But I also know that restaurants, a lot of restaurants have really become dependent upon grab, and it's really become a service to to all of us that don't want to, to go out. I mean, I'm not a big delivery guy. I'm a I'm, you know, I think we've talked about this before. I'd rather see a bad movie in the theater than a great movie streaming at home. Okay. And I'm the same with restaurants. I'd rather go to a bad restaurant on site than have a great meal delivered to me. I like the experience of sitting in a restaurant and seeing the menu and seeing the staff and seeing the ambience and seeing the music and seeing the plate where and seeing I, I love that that to me is what life is about. Whereas eating at home is a bit of a shortcut. And I get it. This is Bangkok where you don't want to be out there all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but but the grab and the line man and we, we saw that food Panda was just sort of eaten up I guess by grab.

Justin 00:46:31 It's it's changed the industry entirely, right? especially for those restaurants that that have the, the, the green jackets lined up. It's it adds so much revenue to their to their restaurant.

Greg 00:46:46 It's why there's no one in here. But this place is crazy popular because there's 500 guys waiting outside. Yep.

Justin 00:46:52 Yeah.

Greg 00:46:52 Well, man, that's, really interesting. Thank you for your insights on that. It's it's like the FNB thing is, is one of those industries where everyone touches, but there's it's so deep. And I don't think the average Joe knows much about how deep it goes. And all the little nuances and little tweaks and things and secrets of it.

Justin 00:47:09 Yeah. Very true. It's fascinating. I it's it's next to the spirits and the ghosts. It's it's an equal love and passion. But but, man, it's, it can do your head in.

Greg 00:47:20 What's the name of the ghost with a small mouth that can't eat.

Justin 00:47:22 Pee.

Greg 00:47:23 Pee? You gotta get that guy.

Justin 00:47:26 And that.

Justin 00:47:26 What's funny about that? That actually ties into food and beverage as well. I mean, there's nothing worse. There's, you know, the the afterlife is absolute hell. To be, you know, to be reincarnated, to know a ghost that can't eat. That's right. That's the you know, that you're really in hell.

Greg 00:47:40 For me.

Justin 00:47:40 Man.

Greg 00:47:42 Well, there's a there's a brand new Burmese restaurant that just opened up, up near my office. And, next time you're in the area, let me know, because it is really good. Okay? Killer ginger salad and tea leaf salad.

Justin 00:47:52 The tea leaf salad. Yes. Yes yes yes. Okay. Oh I'm game all right.

Greg 00:47:55 Justin Dunn, where can people find out more about, your good questions?

Justin 00:48:00 I mean, my my website is evolution 48.com, but I'm also on, on you know, I still do Twitter. I think I'm probably one of the last ones left. I in fact, even on my feet, I think I do the I don't do the feed for following, I do the one for you because it's full of fast food restaurant fights.

Justin 00:48:18 And, you know, I could watch that all day long. That's that's heaven to me. Other people are watching it. I think I like watching fights that happen in fast food restaurants. but yes. Justin Dunn on Twitter, Justin down. On Instagram Justin Dunn on Facebook LinkedIn. But my website for the company is evolution 48.com.

Greg 00:48:36 Cool. All right, man, I'll see you soon for some Burmese food. Thank you very much.

Justin 00:48:38 I'm game, I'm game.

Greg 00:48:40 Cool. Thanks, man.

Ed 00:48:48 Dude, this is interesting to me because I really only knew him from the Bangkok Horns thing, which obviously is just his side gig. It's not really his main thing.

Greg 00:48:57 Yeah, right. His Bangkok is his Bangkok podcast. It's like his side hustle, right? Right. Yeah, yeah, I know it was really interesting to, to talk to him. And he, he puts a lot of interesting things in perspective. Like he said this, this new list came out, the top 50 restaurants in the world, you know, and six of them are on this list.

Greg 00:49:15 Bangkok. Nice. And he's he and he put it in such a way. He said, you know, that's 12% of the world's best restaurants are in Bangkok.

Ed 00:49:23 I was I mean, I said this obviously on the show, but I was just talking to some, new newbies in Thailand about, you know why? You know why I stay here. And, you know, I'm not even a foodie. But I just think that just. This is a great place to eat, man. It's just it's just the the price and the quality and the variety. Like, multiply those all together.

Greg 00:49:45 Right. And he had some good insights into why Bangkok is. Is this place why not Tokyo, why not Paris? Why not New York? But Bangkok is where it's at, man.

Ed 00:49:53 So, I mean, you know, but to me, it's it's it's it's street food up to fine dining. Like, that's that's what's amazing. Great, cheap street food. And then you can just work your way up to, you know, five star restaurants, Michelin star restaurants.

Greg 00:50:08 That's exactly it. That's what we say, right? That's why it's so great to go out here. Because you can spend, you can have a great night out and stuff yourself silly, and you can spend ten bucks or you can spend a thousand bucks.

Ed 00:50:18 Yeah. That's right.

Greg 00:50:19 Correct. You know. But but yeah. Great. Great to chat to Justin. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Justin. And, we'll have you back to talk about. I don't know, maybe you'll find a new ghost.

Ed 00:50:27 That's right. Maybe a ghost restaurant. That's the key.

Greg 00:50:31 A ghost restaurant. That's a great idea for Halloween to be a pop up. I like it, yeah. Thanks, Justin. Great to chat to you. All right, let's get into some love, loathe or live with fear. One of us picks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we discussed to decide if it's something that we love about living here, loathe about living here, or have come to accept as something that we just have to learn to live with no matter how we feel about it.

Greg 00:50:54 And this week, it's my turn to throw something your way.

Ed 00:50:56 All right, let's do this.

Greg 00:50:58 So this one is not really a love, loathe, or live with. It's hard to know how someone can love this, but I kind of want to know how much you loathe it, or just have resigned yourself to live with it and how much it affects you. But what is your take on the limited hours with which in which you can buy booze in Bangkok? Does this piss you off, like to no end? Or do you just shrug your shoulders and be like, hey, whatever.

Ed 00:51:23 Well, for some reason, you're in my wheelhouse now. I do find it really annoying. and even after all these years, I still get burned. You know where I forget about it. And because I live, as I've talked about before, I live right next to a Foodland. It's open 24 hours a day, and, so I'll be going to. Actually, this just happened to me.

Ed 00:51:45 Actually, this was a victory because I remembered the alcohol sales hours. But, two weeks ago, I was going to a birthday party was on the weekend. I had to be out of guys, out of guys place, out out of the city at 4 p.m.. And, in the past, I've gotten burned. You know where I go? Like, I run into Foodland at 3 p.m., about to get in a taxi, and I'm like, oh, shit, I can't buy wine.

Greg 00:52:11 Right.

Ed 00:52:12 Yeah.

Greg 00:52:12 Like, you gotta be the. Yeah, you gotta be the dumbass that shows up to the party.

Ed 00:52:15 With empty handed. That's right. but thank God this time I remembered, you know that. What is it? I think it's 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. so I ran over to Foodland like early to make sure I could buy wine. So I ended up empty handed. But, I hate it. this is a hard load for me. I understand the idea, but I don't think it works.

Ed 00:52:36 It's like a listeners out there. if you're especially if you're a newbie to Thailand, you might be surprised to realize that you can't. What is it? It's 2 p.m.. Two. Is it five? I think it's.

Greg 00:52:46 2 p.m. to five. You're not.

Ed 00:52:48 Allowed. You cannot buy alcohol. And the premise is supposed to be that it's literally. I think it's supposed to be like kids getting out of school, right? Like, they don't want them to be able to buy booze even though they're underage. Like, they'll. So I, I'm down with, keeping booze out of the hands of people who are underage. I have no problem with that, but I don't I don't think the hour you sell it has anything to do with it. It should be based on, like, the idiots. It's really and and I think I've actually read some research that it actually doesn't work, you know, like the. So the premise of the hours I think is flawed and it can be one of the most frustrating things.

Ed 00:53:25 So like luckily it doesn't happen too often. But man, when you're just in a rush somewhere and you're like, I got to go grab a bottle of this. And then it's like, they won't sell it because it's during the hours. It's brutal. So I'm a hard loathe. But there is an asterisk. Do you know the asterisk? Do you know the asterisk? The asterisk is, They recently just literally changed the booze laws in that they have now allowed some exceptions. and I think the exceptions, if I get it right, are airports, I think hotels and then certain licensed entertainment venues. And of course, in Thai fashion, it's very unclear what that licensing is. So it's unclear whether you're going to need a special, like a special 24 hour booze licence. It's a little bit unclear, but at least not. At least now this literally just passed this week or actually passed 60 days ago. But now it's been published, so now it's in effect. There are actually there are actually some exceptions to these crazy booze hours.

Greg 00:54:36 Interesting. Yeah, I'm for this one. I'm, I'm a live with sometimes going into loathe. I don't drink a lot, and I find it mildly annoying sometimes when I happen to want to buy booze. Hard loathe in those hours.

Ed 00:54:51 Hard loathe. I'm a libertarian on this. I'm. This is a nanny state thing. It's. I'm a hard look.

Greg 00:54:58 I find it more of a just an annoyance than anything. But there's a lot of things that annoy me. This no more or no less than any others. So I'm a I'm gonna live with on it, but.

Ed 00:55:06 Okay. You're wrong.

Greg 00:55:07 Shoulder shouldering with.

Ed 00:55:08 Loathe. All right. You'll you'll you'll support me in my loathing.

Greg 00:55:12 I will support you and your loathing. I think the rules should be changed. I'm a consenting adult, damn it.

Ed 00:55:16 Exactly, Exactly. Yeah. All right. A final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending.

Ed 00:55:24 Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online. Where Bangkok podcasts on social media, Bangkok podcasts on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and ours replied to our messages.

Greg 00:55:42 That's right. You can also listen to each episode on the YouTubes. Send us a voicemail through our website that will feature on the show. Hit me up on blue Sky BC. Greg, thank you for listening. Everyone stay dry. Rain's coming down hard. I'll see you back here next week.

Ed 00:55:54 No doubt.