Thai Tourism: Is the Downward Trend Here to Stay? [S7.E74]

Greg 00:00:04 On this episode, we discuss the drop in tourists to Thailand and ponder some of the proposed causes and solutions.

Ed 00:00:12 So if you've ever pondered the differences between long term cultural tourism and short term dopamine tourism, you'll enjoy this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg 00:00:36 So what up? And welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian from Calgary who refused to wear a cowboy hat during Stampede, so was forced out in 2001, landing in Thailand and starting a new cowboy hat. Free life.

Ed 00:00:52 You could have been a Thai cowboy.

Greg 00:00:54 Man. Don't get me started on cowboy hats. Unless you're an actual cowboy. Should not be worn. That's my stance.

Ed 00:01:00 And I met an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract 24 years ago, fell in love with monitor lizards, which is weird because Thais consider them the lowest life form on earth. So I never left.

Greg 00:01:13 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, man.

Ed 00:01:14 I like them. I think they're kind of cute.

Greg 00:01:16 Yeah, yeah, I like him, too.

Ed 00:01:18 All right. We want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early. Behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics. On this week's bonus show, we chatted about how I tried to get my students interested in objectively awesome and important topics in my class, even if they can't understand why. There are also more important Greg's visit to the Rocket Festival, which he finally reports on, and a short discussion about the ease with which you can get your own bespoke household objects made. After seeing an inspiring photo online to learn how to become a patron and get all this good stuff, plus full access to over 700 bonus and regular pack episodes, click the support button at the top of our website.

Greg 00:02:21 That's right. And before we get started, I want to read a quick message we got from our pal David. He listened to our previous episode where we talked about the the strange ways in which ties tie. Language has integrated some English words into their lexicon. And his message says, your weird Tie Pronunciation podcast reminded me of an anecdote from my late second cousin, David Glickman. He was a respected Bangkok gemologist who lived in Thailand for almost five decades, spoke fluent Thai, and invited me to visit the kingdom for the first time in 1982. Man, that was long before we got here. For sure. For sure. he he was discussing American football with a Thai friend who was a fan of the team known as the Alaska Boys. Now, David was unaware that the 49th state had ever fielded a major league squad. That is, until he figured out that his friend meant the Dallas Cowboys.

Ed 00:03:07 That's great.

Greg 00:03:10 The Alaska boys, I like it.

Ed 00:03:12 I love these, mispronunciation. You know, things let you know there's a serious side to language, especially trying to learn it, correctly.

Ed 00:03:23 But, man, when you just stay loose, there's so many funny, funny language stories.

Greg 00:03:28 Did you see the interview with that Australian guy who put an ad in the paper, and it said he was looking for someone to rent his house, and he said no Asians. Oh, really? And so. Yeah. And so the newspaper showed up at his door like knocking on his door. Like, do you have any comment on why you say you don't want Asians? And he's like, well, they're terrible. They're terrible people. They're just looking to steal your money. And I don't need them. I can do this all on my own. They're like, oh my God, what's wrong with you? And it went back and forth until they figured out that he was talking on the phone and gave the the ad, the text of the ad to the person on the phone. But he meant to say, agents.

Ed 00:03:59 Oh.

Greg 00:03:59 No. Agent.

Ed 00:04:00 Real estate.

Greg 00:04:01 Agents. The guy wrote agents.

Ed 00:04:04 That's great. That's great. Even Australians can't understand Australians.

Greg 00:04:09 That's funny. All right, well, this episode we are going to discuss a few stories that have popped up in recent days which comment on the dip in inbound tourists that Thailand has seen. Now, as you probably know, tourism accounts for about 12% of Thailand's GDP, so even a small drop in the number of tourists can have massive and far reaching consequences. And one of the criticisms made is that Thailand is pushing cheap, chintzy vacations, which the article calls dopamine tourism that don't offer much beyond very surface level experiences. Crime, overdevelopment and other criteria are also playing a role, and tourists are choosing to spend their money in Vietnam, Japan, Malaysia and other places at Thailand's expense. Now, this is something that I mean, I think you and I are qualified to talk on air because we live here for a long time and we still like being tourists in Thailand. And we know a lot of people who come here as tourists.

Ed 00:05:00 Well, I find this fascinating because, up until just maybe six months ago, I feel that the recovery from Covid has been basically all positive.

Ed 00:05:12 We did a show on it, or at least talked about it on the bonus show that that the projection was that this year's numbers would be greater than before Covid. And all the news was basically positive until, a shit happened. Basically. That's the answer. Shit happened. what was one thing, you know? So this is what we're going to talk about on the show, like what happened or what's gone wrong, because, listeners, essentially in the last few months, there's been a fairly significant dip, especially among Asian tourists to Thailand, especially particularly the Chinese. But now it looks like the, the, the numbers for this year are going to fall way short of projections. So it's essentially there's. Essentially there's been a reversal where where just one year ago everything was positive. And now it's a bit of a nightmare if you're in the tourism industry. and so, so in terms of like what happened, one obvious thing is the earthquake, you know, that that, scared people here. And I think internationally, it scared some people.

Ed 00:06:26 to me, I think that, once it was kind of figured out, like after a week or ten days, I don't see rationally why it would discourage tourists, but I'm sure it discouraged some.

Greg 00:06:37 Yeah, probably a small amount didn't it didn't help. It didn't have a lot of earthquake tourists coming to town.

Ed 00:06:43 yeah. But there were some other events that has have really freaked out. other Asian tourists, especially Chinese. So we'll get into that specific thing in a second. But, the article that Greg and I stumbled Upon was actually making a larger argument. So I guess I guess the issue is this is this downturn due to some specific events. Like what? Kind of like bad luck? Or is it due to some problem in the tourist industry? And I think that this article is is going with the latter theory. And I you know, you and I both mentioned before that we love the phrase dopamine tourism. but essentially this article is trying to say that Thailand offers like a quick hit of dopamine, but that's it.

Ed 00:07:34 So kind of the, the the argument is that Thailand, Thailand's appeal to tourists, is somewhat superficial and that eventually they want maybe some deeper experience or more meaningful experience, and they're going to go to places like Japan, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc.. So so so so I'm not sure I agree with this, but I think that's what the article is trying to say, that, you know, the you know, the Thailand represents beaches, nightlife like red light districts, maybe good food, but that's it.

Greg 00:08:04 I agree, but I think the article is flawed a little bit. I think their stance is flawed a little bit, because Thailand still offers an incredible, vast amount of real, authentic, culturally rich experiences. But I think they're just being crowded out by these dopamine tours, which are much easier to sell. They hit faster, they've got a quick turnaround. People are in and out, and it's hard to compete against that kind of stuff because it's sexy, it's easy to sell. And who doesn't like to come to Thailand and have have a good time?

Ed 00:08:38 I might have a problem with the whole concept because isn't all tourism dopamine tourism.

Ed 00:08:43 People don't go on a holiday to get a lecture about the culture of Sicily. They really don't, you know, it's like they, you know, I mean, okay, maybe some people do, but I mean, the average person wants to have fun for 1 or 2 weeks, like, I'm not sure, you know. So I think tourism is short term by definition. It's only repeat, you know. So, you know you know, our show, which we've made clear over the years, is not really specifically designed for tourists. It's designed for it's designed for expats and repeat tourists. So okay, so repeat tourists. They might want something deeper, but your average tourist is, what, ten days? 14 days? Like, what else is there besides dopamine?

Greg 00:09:29 Well, it depends how you define dopamine, right? I mean, like we talked about on the bonus show, what dopamine for me is not necessarily dopamine for my son. You know, I get a thrill out of watching Star Wars.

Greg 00:09:38 He's yawning. But, you know, going to a beach is not. Who doesn't like that? But going to a party on a beach or a full moon party, I would hate. I hate doing that stuff. Other people love coming to Thailand and going to watch, you know, corn dances or water puppet or shadow puppet theaters or something like that. A lot of people might find that dreadfully boring and wouldn't even consider it so. What does dopamine tourism mean? I think they're talking about the low end party. Party in and out, Callison Road, Samui type of people. The the low quality tourists as the Tat would put.

Ed 00:10:12 It, I guess so, but but I think I'm with you. I'm not even sure I agree with the concept. I think maybe all tourism is dopamine, as you pointed out. It's just a question of what is your what is your dopamine? but but I remember when I first got here and, you know, I was in a tourist. I was coming here to work, but I was I was still doing touristy stuff for the first.

Ed 00:10:37 For the first couple of months, I was effectively a tourist. And I remember that, I think I was in my second week, you know, I wanted to go, I wanted to I had read about Thai dance or seen something about Thai traditional dance, and, and I was in the office and I was talking to some of the staff and they recommended a a restaurant. And this is kind of a touristy thing, but there are restaurants where you like, you know, you buy a meal and then but then there's a Thai traditional dance performance. Yeah. Yeah. Dinner theater? Yeah, it is a Thai thing or a tourist thing. But that was like my second week here and I so, so I think, I think as you pointed out, I think the kind of cultural stuff, it's pretty easily accessible. I, I think the Tourism Authority of Thailand, this is kind of their, their thing. I mean, they know they know that beaches are generic. They know that cheap beer and like, buckets of whiskey shots, like they know that any, any country can do that.

Greg 00:11:41 But I just think that money talks, and I can't help but think back to the time that one of the few times that I did partake in the quote unquote, dopamine tourism thing when my mom was here years ago.

Ed 00:11:51 You guys went partying, you and your mom went partying. You did some shots.

Greg 00:11:54 Full moon baby. No. We went. We joined like a snorkeling tour with a bunch of other. It was just a join tour, you know? So you join whatever people are there and you go with them to whatever. And it was horrible. The whole day was just a terrible experience because everything was packed. You couldn't get any photos without 300 people in the background. We stopped at a beach for lunch and it was shitty. Dried fried rice in a styrofoam container with 500 other people I didn't know, you know. Right. It was just that I think that's the kind of tourism that they're talking about that does. Maybe it's empty calories and so.

Ed 00:12:27 So that is okay. I like that phrase because I mean, that is superficial.

Ed 00:12:31 Yeah. It sounds like in this case it wasn't dopamine for you though. I mean, obviously it's it didn't work. It was.

Greg 00:12:37 No, but it's got to be dopamine for some people. Otherwise they wouldn't keep they wouldn't have dozens and dozens of boats every day packed with people. Right.

Ed 00:12:45 That's that's totally valid. Well, let's circle back then. if if it if this explanation of dopamine tourism is bogus, which you and I seem to be on the same page. Then what could explain the downturn? Well, like I mentioned, the earthquake. the you and I have both looked at a couple of different articles. apparently the Thai baht is a little bit stronger than it's been before. So when people come here, they're spending power is decreased. Another factor, but in particular with Chinese tourists. I don't even know the details of the whole story. And for for this show, it doesn't matter that much. But there was, a pretty horrific scandal involving, a prominent Chinese. Were they were they a an influencer or a movie star or.

Greg 00:13:36 I think he was sort of a celebrity, a TV star or a movie.

Ed 00:13:39 Star, and more or less, they were in Thailand on a holiday and they got kidnapped. And so this is a thing that I've read about before of I wouldn't say it's endemic in Thailand, but it's a problem. It's essentially where some wealthy tourist gets grabbed and the kidnappers want them to transfer money. So I guess it's. I guess that's just what kidnapping is. But it's not like kidnapping. We're going to contact your parents to pay. It's like they grab you, and then they're. Then they're like, well, you got to transfer us this money or give us your bitcoin or whatever, right? and so, so I guess that's pretty much what kidnappers do. and, apparently it was a huge story in China. So it. Yeah, it was a huge scandal in China that Thailand is not safe, you know, and, I personally so my, my, my theory is that it's actually I don't think it's some problem with Thai terrorism in general.

Ed 00:14:42 I think it's these events. I think it's a, I don't I'm not sure I'd call it a perfect storm, but, I mean, I think it's if you look at the data, Western tourism is up Western tourism is on track that they expected. It's really Asian tourism that's down. So I think it's, these negative news stories. I think it's the earthquake. I think it's the Thai baht. I think it's, the security matters, and I'm not trying to minimize the security matters. Like it's, you know, I would be scared to, like, if if I was a Swedish guy, I think I would bring in my family to Thailand. And then I read in the news that some Swedish, like dad, got kidnapped in Thailand. I might not come.

Greg 00:15:29 Yeah, right. And this, this article says arrivals from China have fallen 33% so far this year. That's right. Scam gang kidnapped Chinese actor Wang Qiang near the Thai border in January. Wang's ordeal went viral in the mainland, prompting thousands of cancellations as mainland tourists opted for regional competitors, including Japan and Singapore, that they perceive as safer.

Ed 00:15:48 30%? That's insane. I think that's huge. That explains almost everything. I mean, the earthquake probably explains 1%. Maybe, you know, maybe the Thai baht. Maybe the Thai baht explains, like 2%. you and I, because we're Westerners, our focus is on on Westerners when we, you know, when when tourist pops into my head, I picture a guy from Sweden, but obviously. Yeah, like Chinese tourists make up a huge amount of the tourism in Thailand.

Greg 00:16:17 Right? I think you're afraid the phrase you used was actually pretty accurate, a perfect storm, because you've got that going. You've got the social media, which is very like the insular in Thailand, like the or in China, like the, the Chinese social media. So it spreads like wildfire over there. You've got other countries competing for the tourism dollar. you know, and then there's the broader story of the scam centers, which are not just taking Chinese people to where there's a huge problem with Cambodia, like one of our former guests, Dominic Folder, has written extensively about it in Nikkei Asia and stuff like that.

Ed 00:16:51 Right. Listeners, this is a bit of a different issue. Maybe we actually probably should do another show on it. But yeah, there's a huge problem in both Myanmar and Cambodia with, scam centers where it involves, like some really creepy stuff where it's often Chinese, not only Chinese, but you get, you know, poor people looking for a job, and they get offered a job in Myanmar or Cambodia, and it ends up being essentially slave labor where their passport gets seized and they're forced to run scams, like on the internet. and it's a huge problem. And I think the, the kidnapping of that Chinese actor was somehow connected to these, you know, these criminal gangs. Yeah, essentially they essentially.

Greg 00:17:37 They basically picked the wrong guy.

Ed 00:17:38 Basically Myanmar and Cambodia just to be straight. There's a lot of criminal organized crime in both Myanmar and Cambodia, like a lot of organized criminal gangs. and it's it seeps over into Thailand and it affects people. It can affect people visiting. Thailand.

Greg 00:18:00 But the other part of that perfect storm is that Japan is safer. Singapore is cleaner, for sure. It's part of the charm of Thailand, right? Is that it's a bit grungy and it's a bit chaotic, and that's why we like it. But if you're looking for a solid, stable, dependable, predictable vacation.

Ed 00:18:18 That's.

Greg 00:18:18 Not here, and you read that story, you're like, well, shit. Like Singapore is is always going to be Singapore because they've got it tied down.

Ed 00:18:25 The more I think about it, the more I think this dopamine tourism explanation is just dumb. I don't buy it. I really think it's these other. And and I'm not dismissing the other concerns. you know, I think this the safety thing. It it is an issue, and it's not, you know, it's not, it's not even just that one event. You know, there's an event. What was it a year or two ago where, another kind of high sow tourist tourists got shaken down for a bribe.

Ed 00:18:56 Like she had a.

Greg 00:18:57 The Korean. The Korean?

Ed 00:18:59 Yeah, the Korean actress. She had a vape. And, and, they, you know, there's anti vape laws in Thailand that they selectively enforce against people they think who have money, you know. So if you're if you're the average, if you're an average Thai kid and you have a vape, they ignore you. But if you're you look like a wealthy tourist and you have a vape, then they shake you down for a thousand bucks.

Greg 00:19:20 Right. I'm going to push back a little bit, though, on how you think the the dopamine tourism thing is not really legit. I think it kind of is because that dopamine tourism, let's let's define it as the sort of the quick in and out, quick turnaround conveyor belt tourism where they get as many people in and out as possible to make as quick, as much money as quickly as possible. I think that also has a detrimental effect, especially on environment. And when you're talking about places that have become over touristy like then that that also affects, the repeat tourists.

Greg 00:19:53 Like if I, if I was a normal tourist, and I went on that boat trip that I went on and I went back to Canada. I'd be like, oh, my trip to Thailand sucked. Like, I just spent time on a beach with 5000 other people. There's nothing special about it. That would have a negative effect too. And I would be out there. Sure. Talking smack about Thailand. And, you know, you multiply that by 10,000.

Ed 00:20:13 I'm not defending conveyor belt tourism. I'm just. I'm just not sure that explains the downturn. Like, the question is, you know, the issue is what has caused this unexpected downturn, and are you sure? Are you sure that there's more of that conveyor belt tourism here than in Vietnam or Malaysia or Japan?

Greg 00:20:32 Yeah, that's a good question.

Ed 00:20:33 I do think those countries are more organized, but that doesn't mean they don't have that same thing. But yeah, I would never defend that. Like that type of mass market like huge groups of people.

Ed 00:20:44 And you know, you're I mean you're you're you're takedown of it is perfectly valid. But I'm not sure that's always existed in Thailand like it doesn't. The bottom line is post-Covid. There was a very quick jump and like we were headed towards a perfect recovery and then now we've had this downturn and I don't I don't I think it's because of these events. That's just my take.

Greg 00:21:12 Yeah, you may be right and you're right. It has always existed, but always existing. When there's 25 million tours per year versus 45 million tourists a year. That's right.

Ed 00:21:21 I agree with you 100% on overtourism. I mean, growth can't growth cannot be the main goal. It becomes counterproductive over time.

Greg 00:21:30 Yeah. We saw that when they shut down Maya Bay so the environment could recover. Right. And that worked really well. So I'm all for that. But you also said that the European market is up to and that's what the story says to it says, tourists from the US have spiked 12% this year, the, through May, to more than 625,000 a year.

Greg 00:21:49 Arrivals from Europe have jumped nearly 18% to more than 3 million. yeah. And then there's of course, the white lotus effect, which they have to mention by law. I think, that's also having an effect.

Ed 00:21:59 You know, the interesting thing about the White Lotus effect, that one of the articles, you and I both looked at multiple articles because we do our research. they were saying that the White Lotus effect has worked for Westerners, but not for Asians. So like, and it's not that Asians didn't like the show. It's just that apparently going to the article, it's like an Asian sees the stuff in White Lotus and they're like, yeah, like Asia, you know, like like like for them, for them, they're like, okay, we like the show, but it's not some cool thing like this is just, yeah, because this is a beach. There's some monkeys, you know, you know, you know. So they're right. And so apparently the white lotus effect is primarily for Westerners.

Greg 00:22:43 Well, I wonder if the white lotus effect in Italy, when they filmed season two in Sicily had any effect on people in Spain, in Spain, you know, like they're like, yeah, Italy. It's just I've been there a million times. There's nothing special about it.

Ed 00:22:54 Yeah, actually, it's a very cool. It's a very cool topic. I wonder if I wonder if Sicily saw an increase in maybe Asian tourists who were like.

Greg 00:23:03 Yeah, look at Sicily. It's so cool. It's so different. We got to go there.

Ed 00:23:07 And then Europeans were like, yeah, it's Sicily. Like there's no so there's maybe there was no white lotus effect, maybe there was no white lotus effect for Europeans.

Greg 00:23:15 That's an interesting question. Yeah. but I think I think one of the big takeaways too, is, is I'm glad people are starting to ask these questions like, we need more. I mean, I hate to use the word real because every tourism is real high quality. That's also like there needs to be a greater variety of more more of a breadth of the types of, of, of of tourists and activities that tourists can do here, for sure.

Greg 00:23:42 You know, Stu, from Travel fish always cites the thousands of studies that have shown that quote unquote, low quality, slow tourists are actually more beneficial to an economy, to the economy. Then the quick dopamine tourists that come in for a speedboat tour and a trip to Samui and out again agree. Because they they travel slowly, they might spend less per day, but they're here longer and they put the money directly into the local communities versus some conglomerate run by whatever.

Ed 00:24:10 So for sure, when you get off the beaten path, when you go to, let's say, the Rocket Festival in your home, which we talked about, which we talked about on the bonus show, which is available for patrons only. no, but that's the kind of thing, like what we talked on the bonus show. Like you went to this rocket festival. It's off the beaten path, but it's the kind of thing that's very tight and very unique. Whereas, you know, being on a beach, I love Thai beaches, but I wouldn't call them unique, you know, it's like there's beautiful beaches in the Maldives and, you know, you know, in many countries, where that particular rocket festival is just a uniquely Thai thing.

Ed 00:24:47 And then, of course, if you go there, all your money is going to go to local people. It's not going to go to some, International hotel chain like the Hilton in Buckhead or something.

Greg 00:24:57 Right. That's right. And again, we've said it on the show before. Thailand doesn't have a lock on friendly people for food. That's right. Nice beaches. so.

Ed 00:25:07 But it does have a lock on. It does have a lock on Thai culture.

Greg 00:25:11 That's exactly it. And I'm glad people are recognizing that people can spend their money elsewhere. And of course, they're not just recognizing it. It's been talked about for for many, many years. But, it's just that that the shallowness of a lot of these activities, there's it's not doing much for the long term long tail of, of great selling Thailand as a, as a cultural destination. Agreed. Because they can go anywhere and get that cheap stuff. So play up Thai culture, enhance Thai culture, promote Thai culture. It's not all about soft power.

Greg 00:25:43 And Millie with her mango and sticky rice. It's gotta go deeper than that, I think. I don't have any solutions. I'm just saying.

Ed 00:25:50 I agree, I agree.

Greg 00:25:51 Anyway, so I think I think both of us agree that the article is raising some good points, but it's also needs a bit more nuance. and also we should mention that we're reading a translated one from Thai. So maybe there's a lot of nuance that's lost there as well. But, I liked it with the people are thinking about this, and I think it's important to, to revisit this topic because that's how you make things better and more appealing, for sure. More, more sustainable.

Ed 00:26:16 You know, it's a competitive, super competitive tourism and super competitive. Thailand needs a unique selling point. they have to ask themselves, you know, why should people come here instead of Vietnam? and, so, yeah, I'm glad they're asking these questions.

Greg 00:26:30 Yeah. Me too. Rising tide lifts all boats. So let's lift the Thailand boat.

Greg 00:26:36 It's Greg finishing the end of every episode with a with a motivational quote. All right. Good chat. All right, let's get into some. Would you rather where one of us picks two contrasting situations tied to Thailand to debate and choose which one we'd prefer. Now, I've got an interesting hypothetical for you here.

Ed 00:26:55 Okay.

Greg 00:26:56 And this is not remotely possible, but let's assume that you are going to have to live on one type of food in your in your country or where you live. Would you choose to subsist solely on Thai food made in America or American food made in Thailand? Ooh.

Ed 00:27:23 That's kind of tricky, man. That's kind of deep.

Greg 00:27:26 It is kind of. It was. It's a total hypothetical. But I mean, you know how they always say like, oh, yeah, this Thai restaurant in New York is good, but you really should taste the food in Thailand.

Ed 00:27:34 no, I.

Greg 00:27:35 Like the flip side of that is like, I've had good hamburgers and I've had good hot dogs in Thailand.

Greg 00:27:39 But you really ought to try a street hotdog in New York.

Ed 00:27:41 Good. No, it's a good question. Like, do Americans do Thai food better than Thai people do American food?

Greg 00:27:51 Yeah. That's that's a, that's a much more intelligent way to.

Ed 00:27:55 I'm here to translate for Greg.

Greg 00:27:58 Thanks, man.

Ed 00:28:00 wow, that is a great question. It's funny. listeners, you probably know that I came to Thailand fairly spontaneously, didn't know much about Thailand before I came here, but I used to go to Thai restaurants occasionally in the States, like most people. And I understood that the difference between Chinese food and Thai food. And I did like Thai food a lot before I came here, but I really didn't know it. You know, it's like I, you know, I wasn't any any type of aficionado, but I did I did like the Thai food there. But the thing about American, you know, this actually gets back to our previous show we did on, Western food that has been adopted by Thai people because there's there's good burgers here.

Ed 00:28:43 There's good pizza here. this is tough because, you know, I'm a huge fan of Thai food. But man, I'm going to. I'm just going to say this, I think I think Thai people do Western food better than America does Thai food. The bottom line is, I mean, even even if I just restricted myself to American food, like I said, there's great burgers here, great pizza. But then if you expand it, there's killer Italian food here. So yeah, if I had to rely on, on like, borrowed cuisine, it would probably be on a Western food here than than Thai food.

Greg 00:29:25 Versus.

Ed 00:29:26 I know there's great I know there's great Thai restaurants, in the States. And, you know, you and I both have friends in Canada, in the US who are who are restaurateurs and Thai food experts. There's some killer Thai places in the States, but, it's actually hit or miss, like, so my hometown, which is Cleveland, Ohio. when I go back, sometimes my friends ask, like, they want to go to a Thai place, and, I so I don't go into the details, but I know for Thai restaurants in my hometown and there's only one that I'm like, this is really good.

Ed 00:30:03 Like, this is like real Thai food. So it's about it's about one out of four. The others are like, like clear facsimiles, you know, it's like you're like. Like.

Greg 00:30:12 Yeah, like using mushroom soup. And. Tom.

Ed 00:30:15 Yeah, it's just you're like, okay, this is kind of Thai. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So, yeah. So this question, I like it if I had to choose one, I think ties to Western food better.

Greg 00:30:28 I, I kind of, I kind of would agree I think Asian or Thai food is much more nuanced and relies on a.

Ed 00:30:34 Thai food might be harder. Maybe that the Thai food is just harder.

Greg 00:30:38 Harder is it takes more skill to cook a really, really good Thai dish than it does a really, really good burger. I think. So, yeah, I, I would much rather have Western.

Ed 00:30:46 Yeah. Good question. I mean we, we really have the best of both worlds. That's, that's the, that's the bottom line.

Ed 00:30:51 Yeah.

Greg 00:30:52 We are.

Ed 00:30:53 Lucky. A final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons got a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online or Bangkok podcasts on social media, Bangkok Podcasts on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages.

Greg 00:31:18 That's right. You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. Send us a voicemail through our website that will feature on the show. I am on blue Sky at Greg. Thank you for listening folks, and we will see you back here next week.

Ed 00:31:30 No doubt.