Strange Bedfellows: Prof. Khemthong on the Buddhism and Politics [S8.E52]

Greg 00:00:05 On this episode, we talked to Professor Kempton about the intersection of Buddhism and Thai law.

Ed 00:00:11 So if you've ever wondered how the rough and tumble world of politics can be squared with eastern spirituality, you'll dig this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg 00:00:37 This is the Bangkok podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Bangkok in 2001, made $1 million teaching, invested it all in elephant pant futures and lost everything in the Great Elephant Pant Crash of 2025.

Ed 00:00:51 Elephant pants. You know, it's kind of like crypto. You can't predict it.

Greg 00:00:55 That's right. Buy low, sell high.

Ed 00:00:57 And I met Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract over 25 years ago. Fell in love with students who understand nothing but merely smile when I ask any questions. So I never left.

Greg 00:01:11 I guess so. I mean, if you don't cause waves, you're never going to get thrown in the water.

Ed 00:01:16 If they, you know, I know they don't understand anything, but they won't ask questions.

Ed 00:01:21 So that's it. So they like I feel like I'm off the hook.

Greg 00:01:25 Yeah, I know you've covered your ass. And when you say, is there any questions? And they're like thinking to themselves like, man, if I say something, this sounds like more work for me, so I'm just not going to say anything.

Ed 00:01:36 Seriously, that's the reality of my life. But all right, we want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show. Patrons get every episode a day early, behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests, and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics on this week's bonus show. We chatted about a story that highlighted how thousands of people in northeastern Thailand developed liver flukes from eating pleura, justifying our recent double lothe of the fishy paste and update on the Thai Airways heroin smuggler, and a discussion around the plentiful online forums covering expat building projects in Thailand, some of which are making us very, very jealous to learn how to become a patron and get all this good stuff.

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Greg 00:02:42 That's right. And as always, if you have a comment, a show idea, or just want to say hello, head to Bangkok Podcast and click the little microphone button on the bottom right. Leave us a voicemail. We'll play that on the show. All right, well, on this episode we talked to Kun Khemthong. Thanks. God, I hope I said that, right. Associated Professor of Constitutional and Administrative Law at Chulalongkorn University now has a unique specialty in both Buddhist studies and constitutional law. A combination that doesn't come up very often in the daily back and forth to Thai politics. After a discussion on meditation and all the forms of distraction in the modern world, especially social media, Ed dusts off his law degree and the men shift into a worldly realm of politics and the role that Thailand's Buddhist culture plays in the Thai constitution itself. Can eastern spirituality be squared with the complex, confusing, and sometimes downright dirty world of Thai politics? Here is Editor and Kun Kim having a very cool discussion.

Ed 00:03:47 Okay, I'm here with Ajahn Khemthong from Chulalongkorn University. It's a pleasure to have you here with us on the Bangkok Podcast.

Khemthong 00:03:57 Yeah. my pleasure as well. So I'm, I'm a lawyer by training, constitutional law, to be specific. And my PhD is on Buddhist Buddhism and constitutionalism. So it's across, it's a crossroad between law and religion. So that's my main interest. Jurisprudence.

Ed 00:04:20 Interesting. You are. You are a man after my own heart. I am an American lawyer. I'm a member of the bar in Illinois. But I came to Thailand about 25 years ago, and I started teaching, and I fell in love with teaching. And I'm certainly no expert on Buddhism, but in, I teach an introduction to philosophy class. So in that class, I have to do a unit, you know, on Buddhist philosophy. So I've got the basics down. but I don't have your, your your expertise. Certainly. so why don't we start with a more general question, which I think is very contemporary, and then maybe we can get.

Ed 00:04:58 Then we can get more into maybe your specialty. So.

Khemthong 00:05:01 All right. Okay.

Ed 00:05:02 Sure. I know, I know from my from my basic understanding of Buddhism that the Buddha was very concerned about people being distracted in their life. That kind of distraction is one of the major causes of suffering. And that, you know, he taught various methods and techniques, meditation to kind of calm the mind and teach people to focus. And and you have this idea of a spirituality that's based on, on mental training.

Khemthong 00:05:34 right.

Ed 00:05:34 And, and I find it fascinating that today, I, I feel today in modern society, we have the most distraction ever.

Khemthong 00:05:47 Indeed.

Ed 00:05:50 I kind of feel that Buddhism might be better for the modern world. You know, it's like if it's a religion based on, you know, a peaceful mind and breaking free of distraction. Do you think Buddhism is maybe more relevant today in the modern world?

Khemthong 00:06:12 Yeah. I think you start seeing this maybe even like 15 years ago, even with like a simple, like, mobile phone era, people go to meditation and the meditation center would ask you to switch off your mobile phone.

Khemthong 00:06:29 I mean, imagine, in the social media era, you go to a meditation or dharma retreat. Right. Or is it's the same thing. The Buddha said you need to, like, focus on yourself, on your, breathing and and focus your mind on, on on every moment of your of your daily life. so, yes, actually, it becomes more relevant than ever. Although I have to add that, Buddhism is very, I would say, forgiving about about being a Buddhist. If you think about it. Right. although we we understand that being a monk is subject to a very strict code of conduct. You have to be mindful all the time, right? To walk, to eat, to lay down or even to speak and to think ultimately. Right. being a label this you are not required to do any of that.

Ed 00:07:40 We're we are lucky enough on the podcast to have a Thai monk who comes on the show. So we've done a few shows, actually, we've done we've done a lot of shows on on the life of a monk.

Ed 00:07:53 but for laypeople, they still have these kind of tools available for them. Like I have, you know, a lot of my friends, they go on meditation retreats. You know, so they're they're lay Buddhists, but they're, they're, they're interested in, in cutting off, you know, modern life. You know, I think modern life with all the technology is, is kind of overwhelming.

Khemthong 00:08:18 Yeah. So I think there's more and more people, I think. I mean, contrary to what we think, the younger generation gonna abandon Buddhism. Younger generation going to, like, leave religion behind and become, like, modernized and secularized. That doesn't happen. I think actually there are more and more people drawn in being drawn in into Buddhism. But, the question remains like what kind of Buddhism that really draws the younger generation? Okay. I think we have more options than ever. You can. The retreat or meditation retreat that you mentioned. You can go to some, like a traditional establishment, like a monastery.

Khemthong 00:09:04 But right now you can go not only to Theravada, but you can go to a Mahayana, meditation center or even to, a layperson, like a how do you say a lay meditation center? Like, there's a lot of secular meditation center run by secular people

Ed 00:09:31 I'm curious, what do you think about secular meditation? you know, in the US now, it's very popular for big companies like Facebook and Google. You know, they'll have meditation classes for their employees. What do you think about that? Is that do you do you consider that, kind of fake Buddhism, or do you think the technique is still valuable.

Khemthong 00:09:55 I think they focus a lot on technique, and they try to remove a lot of like religious elements out of that. But you can, like even if you are non-Buddhist, you can like drop by and and learning some practice to focus your mind and breathing and all those but there's another kind. I mean, this is like a Buddhist, a Buddhist meditation center run by people who who, like, declare themselves or identify themselves as Buddhist.

Khemthong 00:10:29 but they don't belong to, like, a traditional Buddhist establishment, like, they're just very independent, like a Modern.

Ed 00:10:38 Yeah. Maybe none. I think in Christianity we would call it nondenominational, you know, not like not in a particular sect, but kind of either a general Christian or a general Buddhist. you know, every time I see a study on social media and the harms of social media. It just reminds me of the the Buddhist philosophy that I know. And again, I'm no expert, but if you just read the basic stuff about what the Buddha said about what causes suffering, it's all about, you know, your mind jumping around kind of out of control or, you know, I always use with my students the, the, the, the metaphor of monkey monkeys playing in trees. And I think this was a Buddhist metaphor that, you know, your your mind is kind of like monkeys chattering and, it just seems so perfect today. And, I always feel funny talking to my students about it because I'm.

Ed 00:11:40 I'm guilty. You know, I wake up and look at my phone immediately. You know, it's the first thing I think.

Khemthong 00:11:45 We we are like, programmed to do that right now. Like, it's a default mode. Like, first thing after waking up, you shake like he was up there and everything.

Ed 00:11:56 Scrolling all the time?

Khemthong 00:12:00 I do that too, just to confess.

Ed 00:12:03 Now do you? Now are.

Khemthong 00:12:05 But but I want to. I want to point out here that, that's what Buddhism is really good at. individualism. if you want a personal or individualist, lipstick, salvation. all this, meditation technique really helps. Yeah.

Ed 00:12:26 So do you find yourself. are you like, I, I understood I understand you kind of confessed to living a modern life, but is it something that you try to minimize? Or so it sounds like with your students, you're dealing more with, legal issues. So you're not teaching a Buddhism or Buddhist philosophy, is that right?

Khemthong 00:12:48 No.

Khemthong 00:12:49 that's my academic interest. But, back at the faculty, so is all the usual temporal subjects, like constitutional law, administrative law. Maybe you can touch on it. When we are in a seminar class on, like a Thai political problem. Thai constitutional problem. That's where like you need a deeper discussion. So you go deeper and you discuss about like the mind, the thinking, the ideology behind all these conflicts. And that's where you really touch on, on Buddhist political ideology. But otherwise, I mean, every day is, more like a usual court of law stuff, you know?

Ed 00:13:31 I want to ask you a little bit about your main field of study, and I've got a little anecdote for you you might find interesting. So I think this was around 2006 or 2007. I had a student who I helped get into graduate school, a Thai woman, and she went and got a PhD in political science at I think it was UC, UC Riverside. So. University of California.

Ed 00:13:58 And she wrote her. She wrote her dissertation on the, kind of the Bangkok shutdown, the the the antitoxin, kind of the yellow shirt shutdown. And and so this is, I think, 2006 seven around there and, and she came back to Thailand to do her research, and she wanted to talk to some of the protest leaders.

Ed 00:14:26 Her research, for her research. And she told me this crazy story where, you know, there was a big camp like shutdown they blindfolded her and they took her. They blindfolded her because these leaders were worried about their lives or they worried about, like, red shirt assassins or something, you know, who knows? You know. And so it was a very it's like out of a movie. And they brought her in. And then she's sitting in front of some of the protest leaders and, she asked them, you know, if you believe in democracy, how can you do this? You know, so this is her topic, justifications for coups or revolutions.

Ed 00:15:07 And she said, and I might get the word wrong is the word dharma rat, Dharma rat or dharma chat, so they they basically just appeal to Buddhism.

Ed 00:15:27 These are the protest leaders. They are, you know, depending on what you believe. They're kind of anti-democratic. You know, Tocsin did win the election. So they're doing something contrary to the Constitution and contrary to democracy, but in their mind, they're doing something higher. So they appealed to Buddhism actually to to justify it. So what do you think about that? Is this? Is this common?

Khemthong 00:15:53 yes. Actually, just refer back to when I said that, Buddhism offers, like, a very great way out of answer to an individual who are facing, like, an individual problem. Like personal problem. Right. So you do meditation, you focus, you can think of the way out, spiritual salvation and stuff.

Khemthong 00:16:16 But, for a public issue, you try to find a Buddhist solution to it, and, and, and sometimes the outcome isn't great. You can see that a lot of these people are, like, interested in the idea of good people. Yes. Good in, like, virtuous people.

Khemthong 00:16:43 And and they try to create something like a new governance Combination of like democracy but not liberal. Maybe like Buddhist. Buddhist style democracy.

Khemthong 00:17:01 Yeah. That emphasizes a lot on personal virtues rather than public virtues. I mean, you can draw a lot of comparison from, from from Western philosophies, but somehow I think, they are looking for benevolent rulers, like philosopher king style. Right. And you know that 2500 years, this idea has been debated and rebutted and, and and talk about it over and over. But, Buddhism is still there thinking about virtuous people to run the system. So it comes out to one thing in my study, Buddhist political ideology.

Khemthong 00:17:49 So they emphasize a lot on your intention. So it doesn't matter if your actions cause harms to the public. You know, like Occupy the Government House or building the police. Right. It's all about like, good intention. You know, you doesn't have evil mind. You have a band of benevolent mind.

Ed 00:18:16 If you think if you think, let's in this case, if you really believe that, let's say toxin is corrupt. If you really believe that. Right? And you really believe you're saving Thailand or saving the monarchy, then they they feel what they're doing is justified. Even if it's illegal, it might be technically illegal. What they're doing.

Khemthong 00:18:38 Indeed. I mean, you know, like in criminal law, like criminal liability. Liability. You need two things. Like evil minded and harmful act. But if you mind a handful of menswear if you use that. But in Buddhism, they focus a lot on mine. If you don't have even my, the, I mean, the the disregard, the harm.

Ed 00:19:02 So it's not the act that's important. It's the mental. The mental state.

Khemthong 00:19:06 Yeah. So, that's that's the very basic, foundation of how they talk about Tamarack, dynamic state. Right. it's all about good thinking.

Ed 00:19:20 She did end up getting her PhD, so her dissertation was successful. But I remember talking to her after she had the meeting with the leaders, and she was kind of disappointed because she thought they were going to have interesting political arguments or evidence of corruption or, you know, some kind of legal justification. But basically they just said, oh, you know, that they just made this appeal to Buddhist law or Dharmic law.

Khemthong 00:19:52 Right. Yes. So, if you look into, Pitaka, the, the Buddhist scripture. Actually, a Buddha doesn't discuss in length of any like, ideal governance. I mean, Buddha acknowledged absolute monarchy because that's the only.

Khemthong 00:20:12 Kingship because that's the only form of governance that he has ever experienced. Right. But he tried not to suggest like the form of state or form of governance. What he says is, like everyone, including the king, should try to uphold Dharma, should try to practice dharma. So that's again, that's a that's an advice for personal conduct. But he he doesn't try to say something like, like on their political action or political decision. Right.

Ed 00:20:44 In general, we can say that the Buddha is.

Ed 00:20:48 True spiritual teacher.

Ed 00:20:51 He's not into politics, basically. He he doesn't do. He doesn't talk about politics, basically.

Khemthong 00:20:58 No, no. So, so so that left a big void in Buddhist literature that, later generation will try to fill in. So, so that's why you get, like these protesters try to come up with like, don't mix that. And, and, and Thai style democracy, stuff like that.

Ed 00:21:21 I feel that, these days that is that not, you know, in my, this year, you know, I've been teaching on Thammasat for 17 years, and this year they let me teach a class on Thai society.

Ed 00:21:36 So it was fun for me.

Ed 00:21:38 You know, as a, as a foreigner to teach Thai society. but in that class, we covered the election, and we got into Thai politics and, and, and and the strategy, the Progressive Party and all the strategy and all the arguments. But no one was talking about Dharma or Buddhism, you know what I mean? It's like, I know they're smaller parties. You know, they're smaller parties that I know talk about it. But I feel like this is not part of the conversation these days.

Khemthong 00:22:07 No, but but they would discuss about like, Bajrami and seniority. Right. So the idea is still there. I mean, people still think or perceive the society in a very hierarchical way. There's like people on top of you and people below you, and you have to know your players, right? So you, you don't try to like, rise up and protest against your superior, your senior figures. Right. So that's, it's more obvious in the way that, the political structure is construct.

Khemthong 00:22:46 You have like a election and parliament and politicians, politicians, they're at the bottom of the food chain. And above that you have elite bodies like the court and, and and all the watchdog agencies. And above that you have the king. So it's a pyramid like that. So I just try to add this to you, like, you know, like, there's always an Adarsh. The power tend to corrupt. An absolute power corrupts absolutely. Right. So there's I think that's that's the basic foundation of a lot of liberal democracy around the world. You don't trust those in power, but in Thailand, right. Power signify your bottom right. only if you have high bar me, then you have power. You achieve power.

Ed 00:23:38 Can you can you define power? Me for the listeners.

Khemthong 00:23:41 Right. But, I mean, is like a perfection accumulation of your good deeds. So the more. The more good deeds you perform. Like the higher level of me. This is like in the computer game where youcollect the coins.

Khemthong 00:23:58 But, I mean, it's like you collect the coin in the games and you climb up the ranking, right? but the thing is, when powers signify your barony or signify your good deed, the more powerful you are, a better person. You are you. You are like according to a Buddhist ideology. So absolute power will never corrupt because you are the most virtuous person.

Khemthong 00:24:27 That's the theory. But but that's why, like, people will not question the court or watchdog agency is for corruption. And they focus a lot on politicians and those like in the lower ranking of the of this social hierarchy.

Ed 00:24:43 Okay. one last question I have for you. This is a bit random, and it's something I noticed, I when I first came to Thailand, you know, because I'm a lawyer, I, I was curious then I read the Thai Constitution of 1997, you know, which is quite, quite famous, right.

Ed 00:25:00 It was quite famous, very liberal. You know, many I could talk about it for a long time, but I remember I'm going by memory. I haven't looked this up, but I, I, I think the 97 Constitution said Thailand is a Buddhist nation with freedom of religion. That's my memory. But I think the 2017. So I'll have to double check this when I when we showed the podcast. But the last Constitution, which is conservative, you know, you know, it's you know, the military promoted it. I think it doesn't say that anymore. I think it just says freedom of religion.

Ed 00:25:42 What do you think about this? What do you think? Because Thailand is a Buddhist country, obviously, culturally. Historically, no doubt about it. And since you're a common law guy, do you? Do you think there's a problem saying in the Constitution? Thailand is a Buddhist country with freedom of religion? Do do you think that's good or bad?

Khemthong 00:26:10 So the the actual wording is I think so. So it's actually three parts. There are three parts. Is there like the king is Buddhist. Thailand guaranteed freedom of religion. And the state has a duty to promote Buddhism and other religion. Okay, so so there's a Buddhism and other religion. So, we support our religion, but we spell out Buddhism in particular.

Ed 00:26:42 So So the language is pretty neutral then. So. So it doesn't say so. So what you're saying is it does not say Thailand is a Buddhist country. It does not say that directly. Right.

Khemthong 00:26:53 No, but very subtly, you know, like you spell out the single religion in, like, in the whole Constitution. So that's a subtle way of telling you.

Ed 00:27:03 Yeah. You know, many countries do that. You know, it's not the American way. It's not the French way. But to me, it is. As long as you have the freedom part, then it's okay to acknowledge your own culture and history and your identity.

Ed 00:27:17 Like, I don't see a problem with that.

Khemthong 00:27:20 Yeah. so we accept the fact that we are a Buddhist country. I mean, de facto, even the king mentioned it several times that we are Buddhist country, but we stopped short of recognizing it officially in the Constitution for fear of religious conflict, which we already see in the in the Deep South region. Right. So, we try to hold on to this very delicate position. You know, we are neutral with Buddhism. Special place in our heart, right?

Ed 00:28:02 You know, I'm a you know, I'm a I'm a real politics person in that I think politics is about compromise. And it's not about, perfection. So that seems like a good compromise to me.

Khemthong 00:28:16 the only I think there's a caveat, because, there's a call for, like, a strict separation of state and religion in Thailand as well. But I don't think that's going to work. I mean, in reality, a lot of people here really, like, believe in Buddhism.

Khemthong 00:28:34 So if you try to write something in the law that doesn't reflect the reality that that class is not going.

Khemthong 00:28:42 That kind of work.

Ed 00:28:42 Right. Well, there's a practical element, you know. This is how I teach politics. There's a practical reality you have to deal with. You know.

Khemthong 00:28:49 But again, the downside of that is that, that's a Buddhist country. I mean, if you are not Buddhist yourself, you will face like a low level of discrimination all the time, like a public holiday. Sure. You know, like, you know, alcoholic sales banned. I mean, people talk about it, right? in public school, you might not see it, but in public school, like 12 years of compulsory education. there's a lot of Buddhist practice and classes, but not. But. But not for other religions.

Khemthong 00:29:24 That kind of low level, discrimination?

Ed 00:29:29 You know, that's really what most countries do. I mean, countries like the US or France that are very neutral.

Ed 00:29:36 That's kind of the exception actually, in the world. You know, trying to be, you know, trying to be totally neutral. That's the exception in the world.

Khemthong 00:29:45 I think we we try to hold on to it and try to strike a balance right now. I think there's there's also like a growing, growing movement of atheism, but there's also a growing movement of a more like a religious nationalist that calling for a more endorsement or more establishment as well. So I think, the I think the, the state is in an ever more precarious position than ever because now you have two more extremes emerging.

Ed 00:30:26 Welcome to politics.

Khemthong 00:30:30 It's very politicized, very polarized as well.

Ed 00:30:33 Okay. Archana, I wanted to thank you again for coming on the show. Maybe we could do it again sometime. you know this topic. Like I said, the fact that.

Ed 00:30:41 A lawyer and into constitutional law and you have this background in Buddhism, I can relate. So maybe in the future we can do this again.

Khemthong 00:30:49 Indeed. This is my pleasure. Very, very fun talk. Very entertaining.

Ed 00:30:54 Thank you so much.

Greg 00:31:04 It's it's it's too bad Khemthong is not a beautiful woman. Because you guys both have the weird Venn diagram of constitutional law and Buddhist theology. Seriously? Like you guys? Just two super nerds with this ultra specific nerd specialty.

Ed 00:31:23 We're not super nerds. Not super nerds. We're just.

Greg 00:31:27 Okay, but it's fascinating that both of you sort of have this, this overlapping love of this very niche.

Greg 00:31:34 Sure topic and where they intersect and stuff like that. It was pretty fun to listen to.

Ed 00:31:38 I know it was a little bit, a little bit academic, but, we're smart people here on the Bangkok podcast. You know, you told me that, you know. Hey, you know, I want you to talk to this guy about politics and spirituality and religion. I didn't I didn't know that much about him.

Ed 00:31:54 And, it is amazing that his specialty is it's it's not, you know. So, for example, I have a law degree, but I just happen to really like constitutional law. And then since I've been in Thailand, I've developed an interest in, like, Buddhism. And because I teach this introduction to philosophy and religion, I have to explain like Buddhist philosophy. So, as you know, I explained this all in the interview, but, yeah, you're right. It is a weird Venn diagram. And, it's it's it's it's an odd thing because Buddhist culture is just prevalent in Thailand. Obviously, there's temples all over the place. You can see monks. So there's just no doubt from a cultural standpoint, Thailand is very Buddhist, but it is in reality. It never seems to intersect. You know, there's there's just crazy stuff happening in Thai politics, which is very uncool. Like spiritually, you know, like, you know what I mean? And and there's just no. No one ever talks about it.

Ed 00:32:57 Whereas, I don't know, like in the US. Okay. You know, we have separation of church and state, but religious people are more overtly political. And especially, you know, conservatives in the US talk all the time about Christianity. You know, it's like they actually are mixing religion and politics in the sense that they say stuff. Like, as a Christian, I have to be opposed to X.

Greg 00:33:24 Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Ed 00:33:25 As far as I know, Thai people don't talk that way. They don't say as a Buddhist I have to oppose X. Maybe the gambling, maybe the gambling, I guess. Maybe I think, I think some people did oppose the gambling on Buddhist grounds.

Greg 00:33:39 What's interesting to me is that, you know, Thailand. I don't think it has a a clause like the Western countries do. That separates church and state and just distinctly make some two separate entities kind of thing.

Greg 00:33:51 Know, but I don't know if it's needed.

Ed 00:33:53 Well, we did talk about it a little bit in the interview.

Ed 00:33:56 And you're right. There's there's no there's no specific clause like that. But but Thailand still has a, you know, a secular main government. I mean, you know, obviously the, the prime minister, the, the the parliament.

Greg 00:34:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ed 00:34:10 I just like on the podcast that we sometimes reach into the university world because we're real people, Greg know.

Greg 00:34:15 And it's a great resource to have. I mean, this podcast has been around for 15 years. I think, you know, some of the people who are kids, little babies, when our podcast was started, are getting are getting close to university age now. So, you know, we always talk about the evolution of Bangkok, the development of Bangkok and what's in the future and who's going to lead it other than the university kids. So all of this stuff, having this, this rich vein of, of professors to come on the show and talk about the types of things that tomorrow's leaders are going to be discussing and learning about.

Greg 00:34:47 I think it's totally relevant, and I think it's a really, really we're really lucky to be able to get people like Cunningham on the show.

Ed 00:34:53 Well, I just like that, you know, we have all kinds of guests on the podcast. And so, yeah, we're we try we try to give some variety to our listeners.

Greg 00:35:02 One thing I thought was interesting that came out of the conversation was that you talked about the most recent Constitution and how that one was different because it specifically did not say that Thailand was a Buddhist country. Yeah. you know, that that that question has been popping up every few years for years, decades now. Like some people say, we should definitely make this an official state religion. Other people are like, ooh, that's opening a Pandora's box of all kinds of gnarly stuff. It's fascinating to sort of see people go back and forth on it.

Ed 00:35:30 Yeah, it's very odd. You know, obviously we touched upon it in the in the interview. We, you and I have talked about before that it is possible for like a military or authoritarian government to be more progressive in some ways.

Ed 00:35:45 It's possible. Right.

Ed 00:35:47 Yeah. You know, and but I'm not sure that's what was going on. You know, when they when they changed the phrasing to, to to, you know, whereas in the past that said, you know, Thailand is a Buddhist nation with freedom of religion. You know, when they decided to take that out, I don't really know. I don't really know if that was for some open minded or progressive reason, because I don't know if the the phrase official state religion applies, but there's other references to Buddhism in the Thai constitution. And so it just it just doesn't have that general thing anymore. But I mean, obviously there's, you know, the Buddhism is regulated by the Thai government. So it's not like it's not like the Thai government is is neutral like about all religions.

Greg 00:36:33 Right. Yeah. Wow. Well, man, it's sticky to get into this kind of stuff. I think I was gonna say I gotta start my own religion, make a little bit of money.

Ed 00:36:41 Traditionally, it's a good way to make money.

Greg 00:36:44 Very good way. No, but thank you, Khemthong. That was very interesting. And, like I said, we're we're very lucky to be able to have people like you on the show to, to share your deep insight and knowledge of stuff that certainly I know nothing about. Ed knows a lot more than I do, but it was very interesting for me to hear.

Ed 00:37:00 Yes. Thank you. Kim.

Greg 00:37:02 All right, let's get into some love, loathe or live with where one of us picks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we discuss to decide if it's something we love about living here, loathe about living here, or have come to accept as something that we just have to learn to live with no matter how we feel about it. And this week, and it's your turn on the hot seat, so to speak.

Ed 00:37:19 All right, dude, you know, last week we did a deep cuts, about about why we like Bangkok.

Ed 00:37:26 And this is a is is a deep cut dude. So you might have to. Okay. This is a sliver of a narrow experience, but I.

Greg 00:37:35 Okay.

Ed 00:37:36 I'm guessing that you have experienced it. So let me paint a picture for you. You're, let's say, in a bank. Or it could be somewhere else. But the most common place is a bank. And you have to get a, a, a q, a number in a Q, okay. Are you with me?

Greg 00:37:52 Got it. Yeah.

Ed 00:37:53 Okay. And, you know, you look up at the panel and there's also a voice that says, like what the number is, you know. So. And of course. So let's say you're holding number like 24. Okay. So in Thai it'll say yip song, you know, 22. Yip Sam. So all the numbers are being read out in Thai. But then when it gets to your number, it says 24.

Greg 00:38:27 Okay. In English.

Ed 00:38:29 In English. How do you react to that? I mean, listeners, this is a Very specific thing.

Ed 00:38:36 But if you lived here long enough, it probably happened to you, right?

Greg 00:38:39 It's so funny. I got lots of thoughts on this because first of all, I'm sitting there with my number B-24 and it's like, be a cow. And then someone, you know, B sip cow.

Greg 00:38:50 So she sip cow and then someone starts to walk around and they and they look at my sheet like, is this dumb ass not able to understand? Ty and I always take pleasure in going like, oh, please, I'm 24. I understand she's calling 19, right? And so yeah, I like that, that I can sort of show off the fact that, like, I don't need your stupid support system in English numbers. I understand Thai, but then when I get up there and I'm like sweaty cop and she's like, can I help you? And then I'm lost. I'm like, okay, this is what I want. Like, so I act all high and mighty. I'm like, I don't need it help speaking English right now.

Greg 00:39:25 But then when it comes time to actually speak important Thai to get my stuff done, I just like, can you speak English, please? Because I'm helpless. So it's it's a bit pathetic.

Ed 00:39:34 Well, I'm curious, like when they switch to English just for your number. Like, how do you feel about that?

Greg 00:39:42 Yeah. Probably the same thing. I just sort of. I'm like, I don't need it. I don't want it. I'm one of you, I live here. I don't need special treatment. But. But then when I get to the counter, I do need special treatment. So I loathe that they assume that I need special treatment, but. But I actually kind of do need it.

Ed 00:40:01 Well, it kills me. What kills me. And and again, listeners, this might you might, it might be I might not be explaining it well, but you're basically in a Thai bank with mostly Thai people and they're speaking 100% Thai, but then when they read your number only, they switch to English.

Ed 00:40:20 So it's like they, they've, they've actually done the calculation ahead of time, like they know who's next in line. And they're like, we, they, they're just assuming that if if they read our number out in Thai, we won't, we won't know it. So yeah, I'm like you, I. They should give me the chance. Like, you know, say it in Thai and then. And then see if I stand up. Right.

Greg 00:40:41 Yeah, yeah. But that it seems like a lot of manual work, you know, on sometimes they know you're English because you choose English on the system, but some systems don't have that. Yeah. You just take the next number. So someone at some point has to jump into that. Yes. Process. Yes. And assign you a foreign card.

Ed 00:41:01 That's right I don't I don't like it. Yeah. I'm not sure I'd go. I'm not sure I'd go. Loathe. But I take it I take it as an affront.

Greg 00:41:11 Yeah, I just, I, I don't appreciate being pigeonholed.

Ed 00:41:17 All right, so we're both mild loathes, mild blows.

Greg 00:41:20 Yeah. That's good.

Ed 00:41:22 Okay. Final. Thanks to our patrons who support the show, patrons get a ton of cool perks. And the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online. We're Bangkok podcast on social media Bangkok podcast. Com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast. Or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always apply to our messages. Unless, of course, you're a PR agent who pitches clients who have no connection to Bangkok.

Greg 00:41:59 That's right. And you can also listen to each episode on YouTube. Send us a voicemail through our website and we'll feature that on the show. Find me on blue Sky BKK. Greg. Thanks for listening, everyone, and we'll see you back here next week for sure.