The Evolution (& Photo Ops) of Bangkok's Top Rooftop Bars [S8.E65]

Greg 00:00:04 On this episode, we are going to discuss what Bangkok's rooftop bars say about the city.

Ed 00:00:10 So if you've ever wondered where to find the best rooftop views, the best rooftop photo spots, or best places to glimpse Bangkok's future, you'll dig this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg 00:00:27 Salwa. And welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 because I needed a passport stamp from a country starting with T and Tajikistan, Tanzania, Timor-Leste, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Tuvalu were not as interesting.

Ed 00:00:45 I don't know, man. Those are some pretty interesting places.

Greg 00:00:48 In retrospect, they probably are pretty, pretty wild. Yeah. I should head over there.

Ed 00:00:51 I have a feeling if you went to Tajikistan, you might not have stayed there for 25 years. But hey, I don't know. I don't want to. I don't want to insult any Tajiks out there if we have any Tag listeners.

Greg 00:01:01 Who knows where these alternative realities end up?

Ed 00:01:04 True, true.

Ed 00:01:04 That and I met Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract over 26 years ago, fell in love with students, talking incredibly politely and sweetly to me when they need some special exemption from something and then denying them. So I never left.

Greg 00:01:21 The kid with a magnifying glass watching an anthill. Well, are you going home? Are you? Nope.

Ed 00:01:26 That's that's pretty funny. Well, I, I can always tell as soon as they open up their mouth, the sweeter and more politely they talk, the more I know they need a favor.

Greg 00:01:36 Let me tell you about the girl I used to teach. She was in year six, so grade six. So she was. I don't know what she was 12, 13 years old. Her name was Nam Hom, and she would always ask me for ridiculous things. Teacher, can I turn in my homework next week instead of today? Right. And she would go praise. No. And she would just go pray It's over and over again.

Ed 00:02:02 No. Yes. Begging is the thing. Begging is the thing in Thailand. No doubt about that.

Greg 00:02:06 No, no, mom, you've known about this for a week. Praise.

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Greg 00:03:15 That's right. And as always, if you have a comment to show, idea or just want to say praise, hit the podcast and click the little microphone button on the bottom right to leave us a voicemail that we will play on the show.

Ed 00:03:28 So maybe, maybe, maybe we should just capture a little, a little file of you saying that. And we'll just periodically play that on the show.

Greg 00:03:36 Praise. All right. On this episode, we are going to talk a little bit about rooftop bars in Bangkok. Now, right off the bat, that might not seem too exciting, but when you think about it, rooftop bars are actually an interesting barometer of a number of elements of the city's health and importance. They tell us something about how the city sees itself, about how it wants to be seen by the rest of the world because you need a certain level of investment, density, tourism, disposable income and confidence. Before developers start putting elaborate bars on top of giant skyscrapers.

Greg 00:04:10 And in the age of Instagram, the main draw of a rooftop bar has also shifted over the years. It used to be when Ed and I first got here, few drinks on a rooftop bar was enough. Didn't really matter where it was or what it looked like, but now they all vie for the most impactful superlative to describe the views, because even rooftop bars have to keep up with the Joneses. So, editor, I came up with this idea because I was at a bar the other night, and we'll talk about that in a little bit, but it was the first time I was at this rooftop bar, and it had been a while since I'd been to one one of note. and it the view was so spectacular and I noticed several different things besides that that made me think like, this might be an interesting thing to talk about and what it says about how Bangkok is growing, developing and evolving. So that's where I got the idea from. But like I said, when you and I first got here, rooftop bars were pretty rare, weren't they?

Ed 00:05:09 Yeah, I think so.

Ed 00:05:10 I like this topic. For one thing, it's actually a totally huge topic, and I want to make clear that Greg and I are we are if anything we're anti hip. We're we're gene, we're jeans and t shirts guys. You know from from from the western middle class. And so there's a whole like chic ness angle to this topic that we're not going to get into. So we're not talking about going to the hippest, coolest rooftop bar with like, the coolest people there. That's not what we're talking about. Like we're talking we're talking about cool views, like a place. If you want to see an excellent view of the city, we're going to talk about a few of the key locations. And specifically because I'd love to take pictures and shoot video, I'm going to give some advice on how to get a great picture of Bangkok From a rooftop bar.

Greg 00:05:58 Yeah, it was funny. Earlier you said like, oh, I want to make sure to focus on some of the photo stuff that we're going to talk about.

Greg 00:06:03 And I said, yeah, because like, no one goes up to a rooftop bar and doesn't take a picture like it's it, it's become a major draw for these places.

Ed 00:06:12 Well, especially if you're a visitor. I mean, obviously Thai people like to see pictures up there too. But as you pointed out, there were rooftop bars, so there's always been rooftop bars in Bangkok, State Tower, Sirocco, Lisboa like that. That was a big deal. My first year. I came here in 2000 to go to State Tower. It has an incredible view. It was in the movie hangover two. So we're going to we're going to talk about that. So it's iconic. But there weren't that many others. I mean there were a few like I'm sure if you counted them up there were a lot, but it wasn't something that, at least I don't remember that people associated rooftop bars with Bangkok as on the list of things. No, but not. But now it is like now. It is like this, you know.

Ed 00:06:59 You know, we talked about on the bonus show, we talked about a Bangkok being ranked one of the best cities in the world, at least by British people. And I, I bet I'm guessing if I had never googled it. But if you if you check the best cities for rooftop bars, I believe Bangkok could be number one. Or it's going to be in the top 3 or 4. It's just now there's 2030, there's an insane number of rooftop bars and, with killer views and then also other stuff which Greg and I don't care about. So I'm sure there's some killer drink deals and great food, you know? So there, there, there's, a hipness and food angle to it, which we're not going to focus on, but now it's on my list. So I just had a buddy who was here, last two weeks ago, and he was asking me, like, what should I do in Bangkok? And now it's on my list of things. You should check out a rooftop bar.

Greg 00:07:52 Yeah. No, it's funny you say that because, like, I, I just did a really quick search right now online. And, you know, there's there's a summary of one article and it says New York, Bangkok and Dubai are consistently named as the top cities for rooftop bars. So.

Ed 00:08:04 Oh, there you go.

Greg 00:08:05 Yeah.

Ed 00:08:05 It's got to be it's got to be. There's so many now.

Greg 00:08:08 There's definite rankings out there that always put Bangkok in. But you know, back in the day you're right. It was like, what else can we do tonight. And someone might say, I don't know. I mean, maybe if you go to this building, it's like 26 storeys and they've got a little, a little beer thing on the roof. It's got some nice views of the neighborhood, you know, but but now, it's like they've become destinations for sure.

Ed 00:08:29 And there's so many options. And you, as you pointed out, it's competitive. Like now. Now it's a it's a way for hotel.

Ed 00:08:36 It's often hotels. It's not always hotels, but it's usually buildings with hotels or condos in them that then they're pimping a restaurant. Often it's a restaurant. And then above that like a bar tour. Like, like for my birthday, we went to the Hyatt this year. that's the formula. And again, there's probably 20. So we're, we're we're not going Like deep in that list, we're just going to hit a few. The few that we know. You know, like most of them, I wouldn't say we're going to give you any hidden gems, but we're going to pimp a few ones that we like, and I'm gonna I'm going to focus on some advice. If you really want to take a primo picture. So it's very easy just up there to snap a picture. That's pretty good. So that's not that's not what I'm talking about. I'm, you know, I'm I'm all about excellence. So I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to give you some advice to get the the best possible rooftop bar photo.

Greg 00:09:27 Well, let me talk about my experience the other night, because this is sort of what, what what I, I knocked on to, to use the parlance of the hippest kids of the day. so, you know, I, I don't go out a lot. My social life is dead compared to what it used to be. but every once in a while I do get out, and I enjoy a place. But I happen to be at the this rooftop bar the other night for work, and I was so blown away by it. But what I was more surprised by was the, the the also the, the owner. And also what does this say about this? That popped into my head because I saw it from the perspective of a barometer for the city's development. So it was a work thing. And we went to this restaurant called Ladoo Khan, which is on top of Empire Tower and Empire Tower. I guess it used to be called Empire Tower. Now it's just called the Empire.

Greg 00:10:16 but that's right on the corner.

Ed 00:10:17 So that is Saturn, Saturn and Nancy, is that correct?

Greg 00:10:21 Saturn and, Narathiwat Road, right by Narathiwat station.

Ed 00:10:25 Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. So Narathiwat and Saturn.

Greg 00:10:28 Yeah. It's that gigantic slab Lego slab of glass. Right. And I mean, you know, I remember, the first and my favorite for a long, long time was Sirocco on top of sort of State Tower, like you said. And, that was the one and hangover two and that it's hard to beat the wow moment of stepping out there and seeing, whoa, that was cool, right?

Ed 00:10:49 Especially when you, you know, if you're at, at Sirocco, the, the the actual where the bar is located, it kind of juts out. So you have the rooftop and then the bar juts out almost like a little bit of an arm. So it's still on the list. I mean, it is the oldest, you know, it's just the classic one to mention and maybe, you know, maybe it's been topped if you factor everything in.

Ed 00:11:13 But I think it's still on the list. Like I don't think it's been like dethroned. Like, hey, it's not worth it. So I think State Tower's got to be on the list of top five. It's got to be there.

Greg 00:11:22 Oh, still beautiful, still beautiful. The prices have gone way up over the years, but yeah, it's insane.

Ed 00:11:26 I mean, it's, you know, if you buy one drink there, it's going to be 500 bucks, maybe 20 bucks or something. At least it's insane.

Greg 00:11:32 Yeah, but the two things that popped into my mind when I was at Lincoln and normally I wouldn't go, but I was there for a work thing, so I, you know, I didn't have to pay to get it. but the first thing that struck me was that, you know, it used to be, the closer to the river you were, the better state towers. Right? Right across the street from the river. a lot of the hotels and stuff along the river have great views.

Greg 00:11:54 And they have. They, you know, they focus on the view from their rooftop bars. But the notable thing about about Ladue Kahn at the top of, of Empire is that it's, you know, it's probably, I don't know, ten, 15, 20 blocks away from, from the river. But the view so it's set back from where you, like, automatically assume a place would want to be. Right. But the view and the way the place was designed was like a 270 degree unobstructed view from that area. And you're looking right across at almost the top of the building. And the sun was going down and it was just so spectacular. So the first thing I, I thought of was like, wow, this is not in the traditional spot for the most spectacular view. Normally you'd think that would be by the river, right? But being set back, it almost gave it that extra bit of sure view to take in.

Ed 00:12:49 Absolutely.

Greg 00:12:49 And the second thing I noticed was I was looking around and I looked behind us and way off in the distance was by Oak Tower.

Greg 00:12:59 And when Ed and I first got here in 2000. Early 2000 by Oak Tower, was it. It was the the the granddaddy of the tallest, most spectacular buildings in Bangkok.

Ed 00:13:12 Absolutely.

Greg 00:13:13 And everyone had to go there and had a rooftop bar. It had a great restaurant. And you had to go to Bio Tower, you had to go to Bio Tower. But looking at it from the Empire, it looked so far away and so small and so, so normal compared to the buildings that I was looking at right around us. And it really struck me like, wow, way over there used to be the center of attention, used to be the favorite spot, because you don't build a big building like that in a in the middle of an area that you don't expect to to grow.

Ed 00:13:46 And that's right. Now bio Oak is still a cool building. And and the bottom line is that part, that exact neighborhood, which I'm not even sure what to call it. It it is kind of frozen in time.

Ed 00:14:00 Like it never, you know, you might think, like if you have a bike, you might think two blocks away there's going to be another tower. And then you might think like, that's the seed. But it just didn't work out that way. So that I would say ten, you know, ten blocks in all directions. You're right. It is kind of standing alone now. I still think it's pretty good. And biotech is still not a bad place to go to to take pictures from Bio Oak. so that's still even though it's old school. So I would say Biocon seed tower, those are the two old school and they're definitely not bad. They have great views. but you're right, you're right. That neighborhood, it just never went anywhere. And by Oak itself. And I'm not I'm not up to date on it because no one ever talks about it anymore. It's kind of passé. Who knows? Maybe it's been remodeled. I just don't it's just it has fallen off the radar, correct? Yeah.

Greg 00:14:47 Yeah, totally. I haven't I haven't heard that name in years.

Ed 00:14:50 No one no one ever talks about it, because it's, you know, it's obviously nowhere near the tallest anymore. yeah. So it's odd, but it just shows how the skyline has changed. and as we pointed out, the rooftop, the rooftop opportunities have just absolutely exploded.

Greg 00:15:07 Yeah, totally. And, the reason why I mentioned keeping up with Joneses in the intro was that as we were talking last night, someone mentioned that, Moon bar, I guess it's called on top of the, the, Banyan Tree Hotel, which is on the corner of Rambova and Santan.

Ed 00:15:22 Yeah. Banyan tree is awesome.

Greg 00:15:24 Yeah, yeah, but it's also undergoing a complete renovation, so.

Ed 00:15:27 Oh.

Greg 00:15:27 It is. Okay, they're going to open soon, and they have to renovate. But I think when you're in this space, like, there's always the next coolest, biggest, hippest thing that you're going to have to compete with, right? Right.

Greg 00:15:38 And, you know, you've got the view. So there's, you're on the top of the building. So it's not a hell of a lot you can do. I guess it's not like you can add a new roof or, you know, an a show or something like that. I don't know, but But it seems like these things are always have to compete with each other now because.

Ed 00:15:56 Well, now, now, like I said, it's on my list. If you come to Bangkok, you it should be on your list because, it just shows you how massive Bangkok is. You know, it's just, you know, you and I talk about all the time how you and I are still discovering stuff about the city. But when you're on one of these roofs, and especially one with a wide view like your 207 degree view is just insane. Like, if it Bangkok, it's just insanely sprawling and very complex. But hey, man, let me let me get into my, photography advice.

Ed 00:16:26 So some of it is totally common sense. Like the most common sense thing is obviously sunset or I would say an hour before sunset leading up to sunset. This is kind of common sense. It is the best time. Like when the sun, when the sun gets lower in the sky, it does weird things with the light. There's all kinds of refraction and like physics are going on that I don't understand. There's weird optical things happening And it's it's a cliche, but it's by far the best time. Like, even if you're even if you just want a picture of a, you know what a room like go, go at sunset. If you want to go to stay tower, go at sunset. but I would, you know, I would get there early, of course. And it doesn't have to be right. Like, I think one mistake people make is they think they have to be there, like, right as the sun is, like, hitting the horizon. But man, I think it's more like an hour to 45 minutes ahead.

Ed 00:17:19 It like when the sun is like low in the sky, that that creates like weird. Sometimes you get like sunbeams and because of the, because of the particles in the air like that aren't necessarily a good thing, that that creates part of the cool effects from it. So, so to me, that's common sense. Okay. Sunset, the next thing which is is not a huge insight, but it is is important is I do think the river is the most distinctive thing about Bangkok. There's other distinctive things going on, but the way the the child prayer curves, it's insane. Like, just look at a map. It's not it's not an S, it's like a double S that double backs on itself. It it's it's an insane river. And it's an insane place to build a city. You know, it's like there's, you know, we've joked before about how Bangkok is just not rectilinear. Like, there's no like, if you if you choose a neighborhood, you can find a grid.

Ed 00:18:19 So if you isolate, you're like, oh, hey, there's a grid. This totally makes sense. But if you zoom out, Bangkok makes no sense whatsoever. And it's because of the Chao prior. So to me, this is the most distinctive thing. But from a shocking number of places, you can actually catch the river in the background and you know, you don't have like you point out, you don't have to be close to it. Sometimes when you're further away, you can actually see the bends better. Like like I was up in a condo on Rama for. which is not that far from the river, but it it was just the angle. And you could just see like one of the s curves, and it really looks like a snake, like curving, curving through the city.

Greg 00:19:03 Yes. In one of the photos, I'm going to post on the Patreon email that I took last night over the weekend, you can see it starts way up in the right corner of the photo, and it comes down, and then it goes back to the buildings, and it goes way out on the left side of the photo for sure.

Ed 00:19:15 Okay, so that's number two. So number one is sunset kind of common sense. Number two is the river. But I'm going to go number three. And to me the best pictures I've seen of Bangkok involve cool cloud formations and the colors that come from the sunlight interacting with whatever's in the air, you know? So so the irony. So the irony is that some of those cool colors might come from pollution or chemicals or whatever the hell, whatever the hell happens to be in the air, you know? So I actually, you know, I asked AI about this and they said, there is some truth to this idea that some of the coloration could be due to chemicals, but it's not. There's apparently there's many reasons why cloud formations in Bangkok are insane. I'm telling you. So listeners out there, if you a lot of if you if you're old school you're going to have seen some of these. But if you just Google great pictures of Bangkok or if you put clouds in there. Bangkok has some of the most insane clouds I've ever seen.

Ed 00:20:19 Like I've just never seen anything like it. And I asked AI about it, and there's I'm not going to get into the science of it, but there's all these factors. Why? You know, because we're not far from a river delta. Because because Bangkok itself, it apparently generates heat that affects like the cloud formations. It has something to do with like monsoon season. There's all these, you know, as I said before, there's like physics happening all the time. And so I think clouds, and, the best time of year for clouds is right now. So the end of the rainy season, but then also kind of like February, March. So there's something about the different changing weather systems.

Greg 00:20:59 It's interesting how these things now are sort of being catering for that. Like I mentioned earlier, the Instagram thing, you know, and mobile phones are are becoming so good now. And I know you're an old like a legit camera guy, which obviously would take better photos. But you know, everyone is able to take really, really great photos.

Greg 00:21:20 And not only that, the post-production processing of photos now can really make them enhance them.

Ed 00:21:26 Oh yeah. For sure.

Greg 00:21:27 Yeah. Yeah.

Ed 00:21:28 No doubt.

Greg 00:21:29 And and everyone can do it.

Ed 00:21:31 Yeah. I mean, the truth is, you don't even have to follow my advice. If you just get on a rooftop and snap a picture, it's going to be good, you know? So this is. I'm just trying. If you want to. If you want to separate yourself from the crowd. So. So my last key characteristic. What do you think about this, Mr. Greg? I think the key is unique Bangkok architecture slash contrasting architecture. So the funny, the funny thing about corn. It is a great place to take pictures from, but it's so distinctive that in a way they've almost like it's like you don't want to be there. You actually want to be somewhere else.

Greg 00:22:08 Oh that's interesting. Yeah.

Ed 00:22:09 Like you want to be at like bio or not just a bio could probably be something like if you were at a banyan tree, like in catching my corn, you know, it's like you're like, now my corn is so distinctive.

Greg 00:22:20 You don't you don't want pictures from it. You want pictures of it.

Ed 00:22:24 That's right. You want to be at state? Maybe. I don't think State Tower faces in the right direction, but, so you want to capture. Because now Bangkok has so many cool skyscrapers. Like, we we have a killer skyline now, so obviously you want to capture that, but that's not enough. The cool thing about Bangkok is it's got a giant Buddha statue, which just. It looks so insane in the middle of a city. And it's got temples like water Rune, which are not far. So if you happen to be on the river, if you happen to be somewhere on the river, like State Tower, and you can get a, you can get a picture of skyscrapers and the river and clouds and water rune. That's it. That's the money shot postcard. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be a temple or a Buddha. It could be like Chinese architecture, like. So if you're in your Chinatown, you know, I.

Ed 00:23:15 You know, it's funny, I think if you if you look at how huge Bangkok is to me, a lot of the architecture is samey and kind of drab. But if you look around, there's French stuff going on over here. There's European stuff over here, you know, there's there's Hua Lampang station, there's definitely Chinese style buildings. So it's not, well, like I would say in terms of quantity, I would say Bangkok's not architecturally awesome, but if you just look around, if you're in the right place, there's very contrasting. And this is this is part of Bangkok's identity I think. Yeah. The modernity and some classic thing, whether it's Buddhist, whether it's Chinese, whether it's just retro in Bangkok, they're often side by side.

Greg 00:24:07 Yeah. It rewards within with with research and exploration. That's right. One of my favorite contrasting photos is actually down on Watson Blue, which is on just off Charing Koon 42. down by the, by the Shangri-La. And if there's a it's a really nice little temple, not too spectacular by itself, but, it's if you get behind it, you can take a really nice photo of the temple and the the texture and the designs on the wall.

Greg 00:24:34 And then way towering in the background is the balconies, the endless balconies and columns of State Tower.

Ed 00:24:42 Oh, nice.

Greg 00:24:42 Nice. So you get like, you know, the old school Thai architecture and then the back, this insane modern building. Well, you.

Ed 00:24:48 Know, I mean, we could do another. We could do a whole nother show on, on the most unique buildings. It's funny, when I was asking AI about this show, it too. So I usually use three different eyes to get some contrast, but two out of three said, do not try to sneak into the ghost tower and take pictures from there. So. So the Ghost Tower listeners is a huge building. It's just it's just kind of off Saturn, right? Yeah, and it's just a huge building that got the construction of the building was I mean, it's almost complete. But then it got him banned, abandoned like in 90s due to the financial crisis. Is that right?

Greg 00:25:28 Yeah. It's right 97.

Ed 00:25:30 Yeah.

Ed 00:25:30 And, so it's just a gigantic empty building, which is, it's it's amazing. It's never been either renovated like, it's. I don't even know. We should do a whole show on the Ghost Tower because I don't know, how could it be sitting there? So now it's 2026. Yeah. And the financial crisis was in 1997. And it's a it's an immense building in like, key real estate. Like a, like a, like a super important part of the town. And it's just sitting there.

Greg 00:25:56 My son asked me about it. He's like, why don't they take it down? And I got to explain it. Well, actually, I don't know. Like, I don't know if they could demolish it. Like with explosives. I think that'd be too dangerous.

Ed 00:26:05 Well, an old school thing, like back, back in our time, like some of our buddies. I guess I won't name them, but some of our. Our more troubled troublemaker buddies, I remember they. I never did it.

Ed 00:26:17 Did you ever go? But it was a kind of a thing, like in 2005 to to climb up the ghost tower and it's abandoned and, you know, it's it's blocked off. So you're not supposed to go in there. but it became kind of a, I don't know what the right word is like a.

Greg 00:26:31 Rite of passage.

Ed 00:26:32 A trendy thing. Like to sneak into the ghost tower?

Greg 00:26:35 Yeah. No, I've been in.

Ed 00:26:36 But two out of three, as we're like, do not do that. It's very dangerous because it's like an abandoned construction site, and it's it's not safe. But the ghost tower itself, like my acorn. It is cool to have in the background of a picture. Right. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, it's a cool looking building.

Greg 00:26:54 100%. 100%. Yeah. So listeners, tell us what you think of your your favorite Bangkok bar. I know there's new ones coming up all the time, and some of them disappear pretty quickly. Some of them stick around for a while.

Greg 00:27:05 Some of them become legendary and appear over.

Ed 00:27:08 Yeah. And send us your killer photos that follow Ed's advice. Like if you if you can get all 4 in 1 photo, that's money.

Greg 00:27:17 Money, money. I'll put a couple of the photos I took from the Dukan in the patron email. Cool. Nice. All right. Let's get into some love, loathe or live with where one of us picks a particular aspect of living in Bangkok, which we discuss to decide if it's something we love about living here, loathe about living here, or have come to accept as something that we just have to learn to live with no matter how we feel about it. And this weekend, I got something to throw your way. And it's a little bit counterintuitive. Okay, so tipping culture in Thailand is not really a thing.

Ed 00:27:45 General, I agree. I agree.

Greg 00:27:47 But because we're Westerners and we did grow up in a culture, although that culture has gotten kind of crazily out of hand over the past decade, compared to what we're used to, I, we, you know, I think we still have that, that deep seated familiarity with tipping culture.

Greg 00:28:02 Yep. So when you go to a restaurant and there's no tip like it's it's not just like a street food thing. Like it's a, it's a moderate meal and a moderate price at a moderate restaurant. Mid level. but there's no service charge or something like that. Do you feel guilt tripped into into leaving a tip? And do you, do you and do you like the fact that it's not expected, or do you prefer that it is expected to relieve yourself of that guilt?

Ed 00:28:30 I'm a tipper from day one, and this is something that I, I was very aware of in my first year, and I just rebelled against this idea that, hey, I'm in Thailand, tipping is not expected. And every Thai woman I've dated, including my wife, was always pissed at me for like, tipping too much. So this is this is part of my. This is part of my identity in Bangkok because I'm a tipper and but I get it like it's not required. So I always tell actually, you know, I mentioned I think I mentioned my buddy who was here.

Ed 00:29:02 Like I told him, dude, you don't have to tip if you don't want it. Like it's just, it's, it's it's not required or expected, but I just do it reflexively. And I know I don't have to, but I just I am what I am, and you know, I'm Popeye the sailor man. And so I'm just going to do my thing. But I got to admit my I have another buddy who he's one of these guys who he's he's always like reading the bill. Exactly. And like, he's like, dude, you owe 967 baht. Like one of these guys, you know?

Greg 00:29:32 Yeah, I know the type. I'm not like that. And I really wonder how many times I've been ripped off over the years, but I just I don't know that.

Ed 00:29:37 But he he has pointed out to me that as you move up the chain, like many places now include gratuities of at least 10%. So I have become a little bit more cognizant about that because I'm just American.

Ed 00:29:50 So I tip 10 to 15%. I mean, I try to do 15% reflexively, but now I have become more cognizant the nicer places you go to, they're already putting 10% in there. So in that case, if I see that on top of that. So if you check the bill, it'll say that and then I'll say gratuity. Yeah. So sometimes now I don't tip if it says 10% already okay.

Greg 00:30:13 Yeah I generally don't tip if there's a service charge. and I kind of be honest with you often I don't tip for when it's not expected either. I often tip grab drivers and delivery drivers, like I usually throw them at 20 or 40, right? More if it's raining, but I like having the opportunity to not do it and have not someone, someone not get mad at me.

Ed 00:30:35 Well, true that, I mean, obviously.

Greg 00:30:37 Stingy of me, but.

Ed 00:30:38 Yeah, gratuity means it should be something extra. Yeah, but, there's certain things that I, I don't want to adjust.

Ed 00:30:48 you know, over time, it's true. You know, we. I think we did. I think we did a whole show on it. Right? like, I remember my first year here when I saw someone put ice in beer. Yeah, I said, I said, I said, I will never do that. And then I think it took after I think it was two. It wasn't that long. It was maybe like year three. I like I'm like, give me some ice. It's like, it's like this beer is warm, you know. So some it's true that some Bangkok has changed me in some ways, but I'm still a tip.

Greg 00:31:18 All right. I, I, I live with it, I, I but I like having that flexibility.

Ed 00:31:23 I agree, I like the flexibility as well.

Greg 00:31:26 Yeah. Whereas in the States they might chase you down the street too.

Ed 00:31:28 That's right. You're an asshole if you don't tip only 20%. That's right.

Greg 00:31:34 Nice.

Ed 00:31:34 All right.

Ed 00:31:35 A final thanks to our patrons who support the show patrons. Got a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online. We're Bangkok podcast on social media, Bangkok Podcast on the web or simply Bangkok podcast app. Com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages. Unless of course, you are a PR agent who pitches clients who have no connection to Bangkok.

Greg 00:32:06 That's right. You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. Send us a voicemail through our website that we can feature on the show. Hit me up on blue Sky. I am back right there. Thank you for listening, everyone, and we'll see you back here next week.

Ed 00:32:17 No doubt.

Greg 00:32:40 Praise.