A Peek Into Bangkok's Thriving Bluegrass Music Scene [S8.E57]

Greg Jorgensen 00:00:04 On this episode, we dive deep into Thailand's thriving bluegrass music scene.

Ed 00:00:09 So if you've ever been curious about some of Thailand's fascinating musical subcultures, you'll love this episode of the Bangkok Podcast.

Greg Jorgensen 00:00:27 Sawat Dee Krap and welcome to the Bangkok Podcast. My name is Greg Jorgensen, a Canadian who came to Thailand in 2001 to take a break from all the free health care I was getting in Canada. Seriously, can a guy just bankrupt himself after getting a paper cut?

Ed 00:00:41 And I met Knuth, an American who came to Thailand on a one year teaching contract almost 26 years ago, fell in love with the idea of laws just as suggestion until they're not. So I never left.

Greg Jorgensen 00:00:55 There's a quote from The Simpsons when Homer says traffic lights or stop signs are like pants. Just a suggestion.

Ed 00:01:01 Well, that is the Thai way. As we talked about on the bonus show.

Greg Jorgensen 00:01:04 Yeah. If everyone if every driver obeyed every law here, it would be chaos.

Ed 00:01:08 Yeah. True that. All right. We want to give a big thanks to all of our patrons who support the show.

Ed 00:01:13 Patrons get every episode a day early, behind the scenes photos of our interviews, a heads up to send questions to upcoming guests, and access to our discord server to chat with me, Greg, and other listeners around the world. But best of all, patrons also get an unscripted, uncensored bonus episode every week where we riff on current events and Bangkok topics. On this week's bonus show, we chatted about our upcoming travel plans me to the USA and Greg to Vietnam, which neatly coincide with our week off from recording a conversation about Thailand's gun ownership laws and culture in the wake of two shootings just north of Bangkok and pontifications about whether or not Greg is living in a news bubble due to the fact that he hardly sees any bad news in his daily browsing. To learn how to become a patron and get all this good stuff, plus full access to over 800 bonus and regular back episodes, click the support button at the top of our website.

Greg Jorgensen 00:02:14 That's right. And as always, if you have a comment, a show idea, or just want to say hello, head to Bangkok Podcast.

Greg Jorgensen 00:02:19 Click the little microphone button on the bottom right. Leave us a voicemail and we'll play that on the show. All right then. Well, on this episode, we talked to a fella by the name of Sunny Sachdev, who has lived in Thailand most of his life and in the past few years has been a driving force behind the small but growing Thai bluegrass scene. For those who might not know much about bluegrass music, it has its roots in blues and jazz, with a healthy influence from Irish ballads and other folk music, usually played on acoustic instruments such as the fiddle, mandolin, banjo, guitar and upright bass. It's not really a genre you'd expect to see flourishing in Thailand, but after seeing Sonny and his friends at the Banjo Fest event a few months back, we realized that it's yet another great example of Thailand embracing some of the more esoteric subcultures and totally crushing it. So we sat down with Sonny to talk about his audience, his banjo, and what bluegrass has in common with Thai folk music like Malam and Luke Tune.

Greg Jorgensen 00:03:14 So here's our conversation with Sonny Sachdev. All right. We are psyched to be talking to a new friend, potentially an old friend of mine, but we're just going to say a new friend, Mr. Sonny Sachdev. Sonny, welcome to the Bangkok.

Sunny 00:03:38 Hey. Glad to be here. Big fan.

Greg Jorgensen 00:03:40 Now, the reason I said that is because I swear that 25 years ago, you and I were hanging out at a house party and having fun and sharing beers and stuff, and we got a photo together. I can't find the photo, but a lot has changed for both of us since then. Neither of us have any recollection of that happening, but I swear it happened. So nice to meet you and or meet you again.

Sunny 00:04:00 Nice to meet you. I can't remember it. You know, if you say it's a house party, then that's the reason we don't remember it. Probably. Yeah.

Greg Jorgensen 00:04:06 Yeah, probably. And, I'm glad Ed is here, too, because of the two of us.

Greg Jorgensen 00:04:10 Ed is more knowledgeable about these types of things, especially your, your chosen genre or one of your chosen genres of bluegrass and, banjo music. I met you at the banjo fest that I went to a few months ago, which was a great time, really, really interesting. And it got me thinking about why are there so many really talented banjo players in Bangkok. It's not something that you would automatically assume. You know you would. You wouldn't take it for granted. So can you just fill us in? Who are you? When and how did you learn to love this type of music?

Sunny 00:04:43 Well, my name is Sonny. I am Thai Indian, and, yeah, I love banjo music. You know, specifically bluegrass and Irish traditional music. And, you know, the shortest way I can say why I was into it was because of YouTube algorithm. You know, I was listening to YouTube with my friends, you know, we were having quite a few drinks. And then this band comes on, they're called The Dead South, and they had a banjo in it.

Sunny 00:05:09 And then I the, the moment I heard it, I was like, I need to play this. And so that was about 2019 when I started. Wow.

Ed 00:05:16 Oh interesting. So you picked it up, like later in life. You were you weren't like a kid banjo player at age seven.

Sunny 00:05:22 No, no, no, no, it was like pre-COVID. That's when I started. Oh, gotcha.

Ed 00:05:27 This is wild. So now, did you have a musical background before that?

Sunny 00:05:30 No, I don't know. I had no idea.

Ed 00:05:32 So, so so not only did you decide to pick up the banjo, you just as an adult, you were like, I want to learn an instrument.

Sunny 00:05:38 Yeah. You know, like, although growing up, you know, I've always been wanting to pick up an instrument. And then I did, like, maybe one classes or like one class of drums, one class of piano and things like that, but nothing quite stuck like the banjo did.

Ed 00:05:52 Oh, wild wild.

Ed 00:05:53 Now, we discussed this a little bit before we started recording. But you, your Thai Indian. But you also live in Australia, is that right?

Sunny 00:06:00 Yeah. I went to Australia for a while. For almost ten years. For university.

Ed 00:06:03 Oh, okay. So you okay? So you actually have an international education and background? Yeah.

Sunny 00:06:09 Yeah. I mean, many Thai Indians go abroad as well. I think that, but I guess my formative years, right, was in Australia, but I wasn't into banjo then. I wish I was, because there's quite a big community there.

Greg Jorgensen 00:06:20 What is it about the banjo? Because I. I love it, too. I'm not a musical person. I can't play any musical instrument. But there's just something about the banjo that is uniquely twangy. And it sounds so different and so fun. It's just a fun instrument, right?

Ed 00:06:34 Good way to put it in.

Sunny 00:06:35 You know, when I started, actually, I couldn't believe it. But one of the best banjo players in the world is Steve Martin.

Ed 00:06:40 Yes. Yeah.

Sunny 00:06:41 That's right, the comedian. Yeah. And in one of his, bits, in his comedy bits, he said, you can't play a sad tune on a banjo. It's great.

Greg Jorgensen 00:06:48 Interesting.

Sunny 00:06:49 Well, you actually can, but I think the main thing that really got me hooked into it was, you know, this is all community music. You know, like most normal music now is kind of about a musician expressing themselves like, this is me, I'm on a stage, I'm telling you my life story. But, you know, in bluegrass, in Irish trad, it's kind of like, hey, let's come together and play together.

Ed 00:07:09 Yeah, it's a bunch of friends jamming. It's folk music.

Sunny 00:07:12 Yeah. I mean, you know, at the time it was also like a productive way to drink beer.

Ed 00:07:17 Right.

Sunny 00:07:17 Right. Feeling like you're you're doing something meaningful. You're doing something great together, and then, you know, you're kind of hanging out together.

Greg Jorgensen 00:07:24 Well, let me know if I'm.

Greg Jorgensen 00:07:25 I'm I'm making the right assumptions here. But it seems to me that banjos and folk music and Irish music, they're sort of really heavily connected to niche cultures, southern culture or Irish culture, or like Irish people in America who get together and play Irish music to remind them of the old, the old land, you know, kind of thing. I guess. Does Thailand have a similar association with certain types of music? I mean, there's Mowlam and there's there's, you know, music. Is there a parallel to be drawn there with sort of like this is heavily tied to our culture or this is heavily tied to the geographic region that I'm from?

Sunny 00:08:02 Well, all I can say and I think, Ed, you might know this stuff deeper than me, but when I play my banjo or when I'm practicing around people, they hear Mowlam vibes.

Ed 00:08:12 Oh, interesting.

Sunny 00:08:13 Yeah, really? So there's some some parts in the way it's played. You know, they have they get Mowlam vibes from it. So that's all I can connect.

Ed 00:08:21 Fascinating. You and I have talked about it. I'm. I'm embarrassed about how little I know about Luc Tung and Mowlam. Right. I got to be honest. It doesn't appeal to me. The sound of it doesn't appeal to me that.

Greg Jorgensen 00:08:34 That's what.

Ed 00:08:34 You said. Well, I never got. I never got, like, sucked into it.

Greg Jorgensen 00:08:36 We're both really happy it exists, but neither of us listen to it, you know? Yeah. Like we appreciate it.

Ed 00:08:42 Yeah. But I'm sure for I'm sure for. For a lot of Thai people, it must have some of the same vibes. There's something about, music that, you know, has been around for a long time. You know, it's just, you know, pop music can be tiresome and repetitive and formulaic, and it's it's almost, At least for me, pop music is. It's almost like for kids. Like when you're 13 or 14, then you want to hear the new thing, and there's nothing wrong with that, right?

Sunny 00:09:09 I'm starting to feel that way, and that's how I know I'm getting older.

Ed 00:09:12 Oh, you don't care about the new thing?

Sunny 00:09:14 That I have some snobbery? Yeah, that's my tastes, you know? And then I don't really listen to pop music anymore.

Ed 00:09:20 But that's maturity. I mean, I mean, it's only snobbery if if you're like a jerk about it, you know, it just means like, you have taste. And, before we started recording, I, I mentioned that I just get a huge kick out of just any Thai people who are into older American music. You know, I'm more of a blues guy than than bluegrass, but it just it never gets tiring for me to go hear a tie band. And they're playing 1940s like Jump Blue, right? And I'm like, Holy. This would be hard for me to find in the US.

Sunny 00:09:53 You know, speaking of where it came from, like, you know, when I got into the banjo, I quickly went on tie visa. Com to post a forum like, hey, who else plays banjo? I didn't know about bluegrass then, you know.

Sunny 00:10:06 Oh, I see, I just started starting studying banjo music online. There's no teachers here. And then a friend of mine, Tim Penn, Timothy Pennington, he said, hey, why don't you come to a jam, you know? And then he invited me to the train night market, right? And one of our friends, you know, kind of the the guy who hosts these spaces, you know, actually, I, I pinpoint him as the reason the community is the way it is. You know, he has a space in the train art market, and people kind of jam in front of people that walk by, you know, and he's very friendly. Anyone can come and I joined And then, you know, I got to hear his story. You know how he got into. He plays the mandolin. Tim plays the guitar. I play the banjo. You know, that's the makings of a bluegrass band. Okay. And all this stuff comes from antiques and secondhand stuff. So in the trade night market, it's all about vintage stuff.

Sunny 00:10:59 You know, secondhand clothes. It's so big now. Right. Right. And so what happened was he was selling antiques, and then, you know, banjos just popped up in his stock. Banjos, mandolins and then. Oh, cool. That's the start of it.

Ed 00:11:13 So that's how he started?

Sunny 00:11:14 Yeah.

Ed 00:11:14 Oh.

Sunny 00:11:15 That's great. That's how he started, like ten years ago, or even more. And then that's how he started. And he got people into it, you know, by, you know, just sort of jamming. a lot of people confuse it with country music and cowboy culture.

Greg Jorgensen 00:11:27 Yeah.

Sunny 00:11:27 Right, right. You know, when I came here, so when I came into the scene, there was so much about dressing up like a cowboy. Funny. You know? And I went to Kauai. There was a country and bluegrass festival. And I just started learning, so I couldn't. I didn't know the nuances yet, but everyone just wanted to dress like a cowboy.

Ed 00:11:48 Oh, funny.

Sunny 00:11:49 There were Confederate flags everywhere. Oh.

Ed 00:11:51 Wow. Okay.

Sunny 00:11:52 And then people dressing up cowboys and Indians and sheriffs and things like that.

Ed 00:11:56 Oh that's fine. Oh. That's funny.

Greg Jorgensen 00:11:57 That's so funny. Especially funny for me because I come from Alberta, Canada, which is like the Texas of Canada. And it was nothing but cowboys and cowboy hats. And. Right. I know people walking around. That's one of my favorite subgenres of in Thailand is like the guys you see at Chatuchak Market, the guys who wear like huge jade rings and big heavy necklaces and fringed jackets and cowboy boots and stuff like these, all sort of. It's like a Venn diagram between an old hippie and a cowboy.

Sunny 00:12:24 Right, right. Those guys are definitely part of this because before the the trade night market jam, it was the Chatuchak jam. So they sat in front of their leather stores, you know, and people would see this guy playing banjo, and then you kind of go and join him, and that's kind of the start of things.

Greg Jorgensen 00:12:40 Oh, interesting.

Ed 00:12:41 Yeah. The history is so cool. I'm I'm definitely no expert, but it all goes back to Appalachia. It's not even Americans. It's associated with the West, which is anomalous. It's not true at all. It's all Appalachia, which is really east, not quite east coast, but eastern, like West Virginia. And it's, it is immigrant music, you know. So, I mean, it it became American, but it is Irish and Scottish and British immigrants in Appalachia that that created this music. And it's a mix of their own folk music with all these other influences in the US. Right.

Greg Jorgensen 00:13:18 So when you posted your original post on Ty visa, beyond a couple of people that you that contacted you was there, there was no existing community. There was. What kind of feedback or response did you get?

Sunny 00:13:28 You know what I'm remembering now. I found someone posting that they're looking for a banjo and a message. Just that guy. And so the community that was there was the cowboy dress up community.

Sunny 00:13:43 And, you know, back then I was like, oh, wow, this is interesting, you know? But as I learned more, I kind of became a bit, you know, it gave me a different reaction. Right? You know what I mean? As I got deeper into what the music was about and things like that. But yeah, that's kind of the community that was there. You know, there was a there's this you could say young genius Ty kid who was playing since four years old. You know, his dad would encourage him to play like baroque or old English music mandolin, you know, so it it just had all sorts of different people. I think that's what super special about this music. My, my jam a couple of weeks ago, somebody joined with a banjo. I'm like, hey, where are you from? He's like, oh, I'm a pilot. And I just flew here. You know, he's a commercial airline pilot.

Ed 00:14:24 Right?

Sunny 00:14:24 He flew here.

Sunny 00:14:25 He came to the jam. Next to him was a ice cream salesman. Oh, funny. I mean, like those push carts. Pie. Tongue ice cream.

Ed 00:14:32 I love these subcultures, man. You're right. I mean, subcultures pull in so many different types of people.

Sunny 00:14:37 Yeah, yeah. People that you would never expect to be hanging out together. That's right. And it was kind of like that back then as well. You know, just people from all different walks of life.

Greg Jorgensen 00:14:45 That's great. That's great.

Sunny 00:14:47 And back then, actually, you had a I wasn't part of the scene, but you know, it was a lot of retirees as well back then. You know, these retirees that you live in Bangsar just outside Pattaya. Right. So but you there was some true like hardcore best in the world type banjo player retirees.

Ed 00:15:06 Oh that's awesome. That's great.

Sunny 00:15:07 Yeah. See, the thing about this music, actually you don't. Most bluegrass musicians, they don't make that much money.

Sunny 00:15:14 You know, compared to other types. So you get to learn from the best. Right. Let's say I had lessons with the best banjo.

Ed 00:15:20 Because you because you have access to these quote unquote stars. Because they're not celebrities. Right.

Sunny 00:15:25 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so you saw that in the people that joined the jams as well, like.

Greg Jorgensen 00:15:29 Right. there's no banjo bands playing selling out Madison Square Garden for three nights.

Ed 00:15:33 But that means this for.

Sunny 00:15:34 Years. But there may be just one in the world. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Ed 00:15:37 Right. Well, it's funny in I feel that. And I'm curious what you think about this. I feel that in, in, in US pop culture, all of these different genres and music, they have kind of a reputation or an image and a in, in the blues community, Blues people definitely feel like they are a niche, a niche that there's rarely like a true hit that is a blues song. I, I think Tracy Chapman's blues song that she did, write it down.

Ed 00:16:11 What is that song called?

Greg Jorgensen 00:16:13 No, it's the only one I know.

Ed 00:16:15 Wait. Hold on. This is a good thing to edit out. God damn it. It's like you better call me. What was that song? You better call the.

Greg Jorgensen 00:16:24 Hey, Siri. What's Tracy Chapman's famous blues song? Siri sucks. Apple really dropped the ball.

Ed 00:16:32 Well, give me one reason I remember. Oh, okay. I think Tracy Chapman's, song Give Me One Reason is the best selling blues song of all time. But I gotta say this I feel like bluegrass is is one step further out of the mainstream. You know, there is Steve Martin, like you said, like like blues. People complain about being, oh, we're stuck in this 1% thing. But how do you feel? I feel like bluegrass is even one more step out.

Sunny 00:16:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Unfortunately, the most recognizable song is from deliverance.

Ed 00:17:03 That's right, that's right.

Sunny 00:17:05 And so that gives, you know, the whole image.

Sunny 00:17:07 That's right. Inbred. Inbred. Bluegrass player.

Ed 00:17:10 I just I just showed that film to my my, my my students. I just show deliverance to my students.

Sunny 00:17:14 Oh my God.

Greg Jorgensen 00:17:15 Traumatizing. It's, you know, one of the things that I, the funny stories that I have is that, months and months ago, we were in Chiang Mai for my job, and we were we were trying to find a couple of new places, like local authentic places to grab a beer or a drink. And we were looking for dive bars and we were trying to explain what a dive bar is to our Thai colleagues. And it's really, really hard. We're like, explain to it. And they go, okay, so it's a terrible bar. Like, yeah, it is. It's a terrible bar, but it's a great bar because it's terrible. And they're like, I don't understand. We're like, okay, well it's dirty and there's like peanut shells on the floor and stuff. Okay. So it's a terrible dirty bar.

Greg Jorgensen 00:17:53 We're like, yeah, but it's more so it was really hard. How do you explain bluegrass music to Thai people who might not understand the difference between country music?

Sunny 00:18:02 Oh my gosh, what a segue. You know.

Ed 00:18:07 There's this is how Greg thinks. This is how Greg thinks.

Sunny 00:18:09 But you know what? The main thing I always like to say is it's not country music, you know? And I saw a meme yesterday, it's like, oh, are you guys together? And then the country guy will say, yes, but the bluegrass guy was like, no.

Ed 00:18:20 Oh, funny, interesting.

Sunny 00:18:21 And so bluegrass, bluegrass came before country and bluegrass is an evolution of old time, and old time is from the Scottish Irish immigrants. Right. And then. Well, I can't explain it. I think it's I just say, hey, these are the instruments and then this is what we play. I've never been able to explain it.

Greg Jorgensen 00:18:39 It's one of the it's kind of does have a parallel with more Lamb or Luke tune where it's more than just the music.

Greg Jorgensen 00:18:44 It's the culture, the history, the costumes, the accents, you know.

Sunny 00:18:49 No costumes, not not even.

Ed 00:18:51 Natural bluegrass, I think so, not for bluegrass.

Greg Jorgensen 00:18:52 I'm learning.

Sunny 00:18:53 Not it. Not in my jams. No, actually, the thing I try to communicate that through all of the events I host, I try to, you know, number one, have zero electrics. Okay. Oh, okay. Good. You know what I mean?

Ed 00:19:07 Acoustic. All acoustic. Yeah.

Sunny 00:19:09 That's one thing that's very important. And then also not on the stage is also one thing that's very important where people are kind of surrounding you, you know.

Ed 00:19:17 Oh, interesting. Cool.

Sunny 00:19:18 And so you kind of hear that it's kind of of the people and sharing music together. So people must see the passing of the solos, you know, and I'll sort of tell people, hey, just watch who I'm looking at. That's who is going to be playing. Okay. Always small, always acoustic, always people part of it.

Sunny 00:19:33 That's kind of how I try to show the bluegrass vibe, being part of the people. Yeah, that that's kind of how.

Ed 00:19:41 I talk now. Do you? What about acoustic guitar players? Are they. They're ever part of it or always?

Sunny 00:19:46 Oh, I mean, acoustic guitar is a very important part of bluegrass. In fact, it would be a, for me, a bad jam without a guitar player. You know, they they fill the sound, right? Okay. Also with the double bass as well. So the instruments are acoustic guitar, double bass, five string banjo, a mandolin, a fiddle and then sometimes a dobro.

Ed 00:20:10 What's that? Oh that's great.

Sunny 00:20:11 Dobro is like a.

Ed 00:20:12 Steel.

Sunny 00:20:13 Guitar. It's on your lap, and it kind of makes Hawaiian sounds.

Greg Jorgensen 00:20:15 Oh, okay. I've seen those before.

Sunny 00:20:17 You know.

Greg Jorgensen 00:20:17 All right.

Sunny 00:20:17 All right. Yeah. That's kind of how we try to do it. I think that that's what appeals to me. You know, a it's the kind of enjoyment I get from my jams that I try to pass on because I don't want to be sort of, you know, just another band on another random night, write that sort of thing.

Sunny 00:20:36 And I feel like that's what really, really attracts me, which is like, hey, it's about deep connection because it's sort of my own. This thing has become my whole social life. You know what I mean? Like you, you meet friends and you just pass around solos and play music together.

Ed 00:20:51 Well, I just love that this is something you. You found totally on your own. It's. To me, it's cool that it's not part of your your your personal culture, your family culture, like where you grew up. It has nothing to do with that. Like you've completely adopted this, right? Like Americana, this old timey American thing. And to me, that makes it more special. It's not. It's not the music of your ancestors, right? It's your thing. You. You like it?

Sunny 00:21:20 I mean, you know, the the emotional reaction it gives me. I feel like maybe, you know, something happened in my past.

Ed 00:21:26 Oh, there's a reincarnation. Maybe.

Sunny 00:21:28 I mean, your.

Greg Jorgensen 00:21:29 Previous name was Sonny McTavish.

Ed 00:21:31 That's right.

Greg Jorgensen 00:21:32 Yeah.

Sunny 00:21:33 You know what? It's Thailand, and, you know, the. My day job actually is bringing clothing that is made the old way. You know, like, we bring in, vintage denim. You know, the Japanese make great jeans based off of how Levi's used to make it. You know, and then a lot of other clothing brands that I import and sell. Has this history has, you know, a place it comes from a reason they make it that way. You know let's say that the pocket is here because of this. Everything has roots. And I find that I was always drawn to things that have roots, have heritage. And I think that's also applies to the music as well.

Greg Jorgensen 00:22:16 Right.

Sunny 00:22:16 Right. Right. Do you know?

Greg Jorgensen 00:22:18 Are you finding that the musical tastes of of ties are changing and evolving like the younger generation now is more open to exploring these genres or styles of music that totally parents would not even know about.

Sunny 00:22:29 Totally. Totally. You know, I even abroad as well. Like, normally I would expect just older people at, you know, to come and see the Irish sessions or the bluegrass.

Ed 00:22:39 Old white.

Greg Jorgensen 00:22:39 Dude.

Sunny 00:22:40 Yeah yeah yeah. And you know, there's.

Greg Jorgensen 00:22:42 Been Sheamus and his gang. Yeah.

Sunny 00:22:45 So there's been just a lot of young people, you know, picking it up, you know, and especially now, you know, our Instagram channel, the Facebook channel has been getting a lot of like 100,000 view videos, you know. Oh, that's great seeing organic jams happening. And I think it's making people interested. And I'm seeing people making bluegrass albums by themselves. You know, so I think it's something about the instrumentation that is the draw here, because bluegrass is about a lot about instrumentation, playing fast, creating your own solos. And so it's attractive that way because it's cool.

Greg Jorgensen 00:23:19 Right.

Ed 00:23:20 Well, let's pimp it a little bit. What is your Instagram channel?

Sunny 00:23:23 it's bluegrass PKK.

Ed 00:23:25 Bluegrass, PKK. So listeners follow that. And how do you normally record your jams? Does you have an iPhone informally or how do you do it?

Sunny 00:23:34 Well, we sit around a circle looking at each other. And so it's a 360 camera that I edit later.

Ed 00:23:40 Oh that's great. Cool. Oh very cool.

Sunny 00:23:42 We do some of these, like jam alongs where, it, you know, that's you. It's your turn. You know, we try to do instructional stuff. you can check it out on the page.

Ed 00:23:51 Oh, excellent. Excellent.

Sunny 00:23:52 But, with with that stuff, like, all all the kids that find out about this music part of them also comes from classical, like classical and violin. You know, because violin, classical violins especially, you know, is a very tough thing, you know?

Ed 00:24:11 Sure. Of course. Yeah.

Sunny 00:24:12 Very skillful. You know. And so they get interested in this because also it's like fast playing. And so there's been kids coming to the jams as well.

Ed 00:24:21 Oh that's great.

Greg Jorgensen 00:24:21 I just showed my son school of Rock the other day. We watched it. You know he's he's only 11 so he's never seen it, but. But it's a great movie. And then the whole thing was about taking these kids who were locked into this. This instrument plays this type of music. And then Jack black comes in and blows it up and he's like, no, no, no, you you turn the cello on its side. Suddenly you've got a bass guitar.

Ed 00:24:40 I don't.

Greg Jorgensen 00:24:41 Know. And when we were at the Banjo Fest, which was which was a fantastic evening, I noticed there was there was one woman there. I'm sorry, I can't remember her name, but she was playing. There's one in the corner here, this upright bass. Yeah. And it is that that instrument was not made for bluegrass music, you know. I mean, well.

Sunny 00:24:59 There's actually there was actually two women there, two Thai women.

Greg Jorgensen 00:25:02 Yeah, yeah, but I remember one of them was a singer that she was.

Sunny 00:25:05 Oh, one of them sang as well.

Greg Jorgensen 00:25:06 But this woman on the bass, she was just wailing. She was really great to watch. So like is was what's her story? Is she typical of of of a Thai person who wants to learn or is she already playing that instrument and then just changes it to play this new type of music?

Sunny 00:25:22 So it's a classic bluegrass story actually, you know. actually, to sidetrack for a second, this is what I find that when I first heard Bluegrass on Spotify or on the radio, I was into it until I came to a show and saw the interaction and felt the vibe. That's that's when it really hit me. You know, I love this, and this is the opposite for me with pop music, where it sounds better online, but.

Ed 00:25:47 It makes it actually.

Sunny 00:25:48 Right. Bluegrass, it's the opposite. And so this specific bass is her name is nook and she was pregnant as well. She's playing and singing and she was pregnant.

Greg Jorgensen 00:25:57 Oh wow.

Greg Jorgensen 00:25:58 Are you seeing more people be interested like like do people see that and become fans and come back to see you again and again, like this, this nascent community that you've built? Is it growing? Is it?

Sunny 00:26:08 You know, all of the shows have been sold out. All of them. And I'm so shocked. And I think that's because people want to hear something new. It's like what we talked about earlier, that it's not the same talk or jazz or blues that you get in Thailand.

Ed 00:26:23 That's right. It's it's different. It is different. Yeah.

Sunny 00:26:25 And so people get curious because, you know, there's only one scene, you know, I mean, one organizer doing this here. and so it's always sold out and. Yeah, it's it's looking like it's growing. and it's a struggle for me because our festivals are getting bigger, and then people in the back can't hear anything anymore because I try to keep it acoustic.

Ed 00:26:48 Oh, right. Right, right.

Sunny 00:26:49 And so we're just kind of devising ways to hide mics in certain places and have people kind of be around.

Greg Jorgensen 00:26:55 Good problem to have, I guess.

Sunny 00:26:57 Yeah.

Greg Jorgensen 00:26:57 Yeah, yeah. You got to play one of those old Greek amphitheaters where the acoustics are an old Baroque church or something like that.

Sunny 00:27:03 If you know a place, you know, let me know.

Ed 00:27:05 And are there. Are there a lot of Americans involved? It sounds like it's just very international. So it doesn't seem to have a quote unquote American flavor. I mean, it's American music, but that doesn't matter. It seems incidental.

Sunny 00:27:19 You know what they are? I would say maybe 30, 40% Americans. Okay. And, you know, a lot of Americans, they moved here. Or maybe they're passing through here. I mean, we're lucky that Bangkok is such a tourist hotspot. That's right. Right. And so we always have some great people coming through. And, you know, we have one of the best mandolin players I've met moved to Thailand. He's probably one of the biggest mandolin YouTubers. His name is Barron Collins Hill. And he's moved here.

Sunny 00:27:47 And oh wild, you know. So he's inspiring everybody. Oh that's great. That's great. But you know, the other two, the other three mandolin players, they're all Thai. You know what I mean. Like that's so awesome.

Ed 00:27:57 Yeah, it was great.

Sunny 00:27:57 Yeah. And then, you know, I'm an Indian banjo player. You've got Thai bassist. There's surprisingly a lot of Thai people in this scene, which is great.

Ed 00:28:07 I'm curious. Has, has the US embassy ever used you guys? I feel that you guys would be perfect just to promote American music. I mean, I know it has international roots and Irish and Scottish, but it seems like you guys would be great at an embassy event.

Sunny 00:28:22 Not yet, not yet.

Ed 00:28:24 Okay, well, I'm going to work on that. Greg and I are going to pull some strings. Please do. We're going to make it happen.

Greg Jorgensen 00:28:28 I can play the triangle. So if you need a Canadian triangle player, I can bang a piece of metal with another piece of metal.

Ed 00:28:35 Calgary. Well known for its triangle players.

Greg Jorgensen 00:28:37 Oh, huge. Yeah. So we call the.

Sunny 00:28:38 Release a triangle album, actually. What? Yeah, yeah. Of, like, complex fiddle tunes. You know what I mean? You did it. Like, seriously?

Greg Jorgensen 00:28:46 Oh, man. That's funny.

Sunny 00:28:47 I mean, one thing I wanted to mention. You know, Thailand has been such a hot spot for, discarded treasures.

Greg Jorgensen 00:28:55 Let's get into.

Sunny 00:28:56 It. You know, and Thailand. You know, so let's say 50 years ago, a lot of people in the US, they're charitable. They donate their clothes to poor countries, whether, you know, countries in Africa or Pakistan. But in, you know, people in those countries, many of many of them were religious garb. And so they package and resell it. And that's kind of, how the bustling secondhand and vintage scene is up come about in Thailand, you know, and so a lot of it is in Thailand. And, you know, one of the biggest vintage, I guess, receivers of donation.

Sunny 00:29:35 He's in Thailand. And so Thailand is now the biggest, vintage storage where people and thrift stores around the world come and buy from Thailand.

Ed 00:29:43 Oh, is that right? Yeah. So you're talking about mostly clothing, is what you mean.

Sunny 00:29:47 So warehouses of discarded clothing, you know, like old panties, you know, Nirvana. These old.

Ed 00:29:52 Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay.

Sunny 00:29:54 And in the same vein, Japan discards their quote unquote trash via train to like border towns in Thailand. So when you go, you have mountains of mandolins. Mountains of guitars. Really?

Ed 00:30:07 Oh, wow.

Greg Jorgensen 00:30:08 Where.

Sunny 00:30:09 one of the border towns I can't mention. I can't think of the top of my head. I haven't been there.

Greg Jorgensen 00:30:14 But, like, on the on them. Like on the border with with Myanmar or Cambodia or.

Sunny 00:30:19 I think it's in the south.

Greg Jorgensen 00:30:20 In the south. Okay. In Malaysia.

Sunny 00:30:22 Actually the south is one of the main really.

Greg Jorgensen 00:30:24 That's fascinating.

Sunny 00:30:25 And so that's where a lot of the instruments that fuel this music comes from.

Sunny 00:30:31 Oh wow. Discarded treasures.

Ed 00:30:34 So it's just so it's not expensive to get an instrument is what you're saying.

Sunny 00:30:37 It's not expensive. But you know the pickers go and see right. Like what's still salvageable. And then they sell it on the second hand market. And so that's what we see. A lot of amazing banjos come through. We see a lot of amazing fiddles. We see a lot of amazing guitars come out.

Ed 00:30:50 So, if, if someone wanted to get started in, in banjo, what's the what's the normal investment?

Sunny 00:30:56 You know what? It's less than 10,000, but, Okay. Yeah, but then you'd want to graduate from that pretty soon.

Ed 00:31:02 Right. But, like, a basic intro, banjo might be 7000 to 8000. Okay.

Sunny 00:31:06 Yeah.

Ed 00:31:07 Not bad. Similar to acoustic guitar.

Sunny 00:31:09 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's been that's the core reason this whole scene was created by this guy. His name is Hewitt and his shop is in the train night market.

Sunny 00:31:20 Actually, his shop is where all the jams happen. And so you'll see all this stuff, and it's unbelievable. You know what I mean? Like, it just started because of picking.

Greg Jorgensen 00:31:29 Oh, it's just very organic.

Sunny 00:31:31 Yeah. Yeah. Well, picking has two meanings. We're picking the.

Greg Jorgensen 00:31:36 Pick of the trash and picking the strings.

Sunny 00:31:37 And picking the strings as.

Ed 00:31:38 Well. Yeah.

Greg Jorgensen 00:31:39 I gotta head out to the trade market. I've never been there. It's one up by ram on ramen. By ramen?

Sunny 00:31:47 Actually, no. Rashida has a train at market as well. But the main one is in Srinagar. And that's where all the viral videos come from. You know, because you're sort of got these eight random dudes, one Japanese guy, one American, one Thai. And then, you know, like, suddenly 50 people have stopped around you, right? Yeah. You know what I mean? And it just looks like a spectacle. But the thing about, starting there, you know, as a beginner, it's very friendly.

Sunny 00:32:14 Actually, bluegrass is a music that has such a low barrier to entry, but almost limitless growth. Right, right. You know that you can jam with someone as a beginner as well. That's what's great about it. But in Thailand, when you're a beginner, you want to join the jam that's there. But the jam that's there. People are looking at you all the time and you know.

Ed 00:32:33 Oh.

Sunny 00:32:33 I see you remove all of the stage fright immediately.

Ed 00:32:36 Oh, because you're writing on stage immediately.

Sunny 00:32:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Greg Jorgensen 00:32:38 Oh, wow. Right, right.

Sunny 00:32:39 Growth. You know, it must be like Trial by Fire, but it's like growth, you know, straight on stage.

Ed 00:32:43 Oh, nice. Nice.

Greg Jorgensen 00:32:44 Yeah, yeah, that's the best way to learn. Yeah. I mean, I did stand up comedy in Canada, and that was the only advice that ever got me. I was like, so how do you how do you do it? And they're like, just do it, suck it first and then get better.

Greg Jorgensen 00:32:55 Right. And there's nothing stopping you.

Sunny 00:32:58 Then there's one more thing. Actually, when I started learning the five string banjo, you know, the five string banjo has African roots. I don't know if you've heard, but like the banjo, they say it's from Africa because there's an instrument called the accounting that has a drone string just like the banjo. And that's what inspired the modern banjo. Oh, and then, you know, from there it evolved into the Irish banjo as well. That's the four string, you know. So in Bangkok, we have a really, really tight knit scene, but there's just one session each that everyone can join. So every Saturday we meet up at O'Leary's at 4 p.m. it's on Sukhumvit 15. Okay. Sometimes you get an amazing set where you have, you know, like a professional player kind of stopping by from Ireland on their trip to the islands. Oh, wow. You know, it's crazy what you get, but sometimes there's only two people there and it sucks.

Sunny 00:33:51 So that's kind of the nature of sessions, right? So and so that's the festival that we do actually are the festival that we do. We do it at this hotel public house in Sukhumvit 31. we combine Irish music with bluegrass music, with old time music, because they all have shared roots. And so once a year we actually personally fly in these like, best players in the world, you know. And they're so friendly, you know, like, no none of them is such a big celebrity, right. They just want to come to Thailand.

Greg Jorgensen 00:34:22 Right.

Ed 00:34:23 Oh sure. Yeah.

Sunny 00:34:24 And everyone's just playing together. So for a week, you've got the best Japanese banjo player with the best American banjo player. And then an amazing fiddler from Australia. And this is the only scene that I feel like this can happen because everyone is actually playing because they love it.

Greg Jorgensen 00:34:40 Sure. Right, right.

Ed 00:34:41 You know, it's all about the music.

Greg Jorgensen 00:34:42 Yeah, yeah. So when when is that festival? That's where we're right now.

Greg Jorgensen 00:34:45 We're recording this at. At a at a restaurant, hotel bar called public House.

Sunny 00:34:50 The festival is happening this year. It's on October 20th to 25th. Okay. It's called the Southeastern Gathering.

Greg Jorgensen 00:34:57 Southeastern gathering at public house on Sukhumvit 31. That's right. I'll be here. Well, Sonny. Thanks, man. It's good to see you again after so long. And or meet you again for the first time. I can't remember which one, but you're doing some really cool stuff here. And not just you, your your friends, your colleagues, your your contemporaries as well. banjo Fest was real fun, and I got to make it out to the train or to the vintage market to check out the jam sessions, and I will be back here, later this year for the festival. Awesome. What's a website people can check out? Is it just Instagram?

Sunny 00:35:30 It's bluegrass. Bangkok.

Greg Jorgensen 00:35:32 Bluegrass? Bangkok.

Sunny 00:35:33 That's right.

Ed 00:35:33 All right. Excellent.

Greg Jorgensen 00:35:34 Well. Thanks, man. I'm going to go home and listen to some banjo music.

Sunny 00:35:38 Yeah, thanks for having me.

Greg Jorgensen 00:35:39 All right. We'll see you soon.

Ed 00:35:40 Thank you. Sir. Do you know from the interview? I love that I love talking to Sonny. I found that one of the more interesting interviews we've done. I, you know, I'm I'm a big lover of, live music in general. I teach a class in American music history, and I'm also just fascinated about subcultures. Even back in the day. Even back in the States, I used to love documentaries about subcultures, like weird things like Trekkies and, you know, just I love you know what I mean? Like, I love subcultures. And so, Sonny and this whole bluegrass scene in Thailand, it just combines all this stuff that I'm fascinated by. And I mean, the interview kind of said it all. It's just or your introduction said it all. It's just it's kind of odd that this would flourish here, but it is and it's it's so much fun and, it seems to be spreading.

Greg Jorgensen 00:36:42 Yeah, yeah.

Greg Jorgensen 00:36:43 It's great. And it was funny when I went to the banjo fest, I didn't know what to expect, but, the musicians were absolutely top notch, and it was packed. I mean, it wasn't a big place, but there was 80 people there. Yeah. Maybe more, you know? And, these guys I like, I'm not a huge bluegrass fan. If it comes on, I'll listen to it and I know a little bit about it, but but man, it's just one of those subcultures that goes deep. And the deeper you go, deeper you can go, you know?

Ed 00:37:10 Yeah. you know, I talked about this in the interview a little bit. You know, I'm a I'm a diehard blues fan. And back in the day, I really did not like bluegrass. There's kind of a thing in blues. Like. Like some blues. People are like, we don't play bluegrass. You know? It's kind of kind of a thing.

Greg Jorgensen 00:37:24 oh, yeah. Bloody duh.

Ed 00:37:26 Yeah. That's right. But but then later when I especially after I so about ten years ago, I think I taught my American music history class for the first time. And, for that class, I had to do more research, and I forced myself to listen to more country music, more bluegrass stuff that I hadn't really stuff that I was kind of like, oh, that's not me. But I never actually sat and listened to it. And so ten years ago, when I actually sat down and like, okay, I got to, I got to listen to some bluegrass so I can talk to my students. I really liked it, and I was kind of surprised. Like, it's it's it's it's, you know, as we talked on the interview, it's really Appalachian Hill country music that comes from, you know, Scottish, British, Irish folk songs with all the, all the mix of different American stuff. So it's, it's true Americana. It's American history in the music itself.

Greg Jorgensen 00:38:20 Yeah, exactly.

Greg Jorgensen 00:38:22 You know, would it be as. As weird is the wrong word? Would it be as interesting to see, like some random hipster American guy, like super into Luke tune in like Madison, Wisconsin or something. And he's like, you know, you go to a Thai Luke tune performance and there's a bunch of white dudes.

Ed 00:38:40 A bunch of white dudes.

Greg Jorgensen 00:38:42 There's no there is to be like 80 ties. And then up on stage there's like a bunch of American guys just wailing on the mouth flutes.

Ed 00:38:50 Well, well, as we know, there are some. There are some, white, Luke tongue and, singers.

Greg Jorgensen 00:38:57 Yeah, there are two.

Ed 00:38:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two famous ones. Right?

Greg Jorgensen 00:39:01 Two famous ones. Yeah. But, no. Super interesting. And Sonny was a very knowledgeable. Interesting. Yeah. For sure. Back, dude.

Ed 00:39:09 I love the fact that he, came to this later in life. That that's always refreshing when I, when I, someone says, oh, I started playing, you know, the guitar when I was 45 or even in your 20s.

Ed 00:39:23 It's because most people, most of us try musical instruments when we're young, and then it either sticks or it doesn't. And then most of us just then leave it and leave it behind. You know what I mean? Right. So I love when I come across someone who started playing piano as an adult. Or maybe they learned to sing. I feel, especially in the States. If you don't sing when you're young, or if you're not in like chorus in school, or sing in your church choir. I feel that not that many people pick it up later. right. So that's what I like. I just like, just as adults finding a new thing that that, that that motivates you. And that clearly is what happened with Sonny. And then so he's become a very good player himself, but then he's helped jumpstart this community and support this community. and I think it's great.

Greg Jorgensen 00:40:15 Yeah. It's awesome. You add that to the pile of stories, you're like, you know, Harrison Ford didn't start acting until he was 40 as well.

Greg Jorgensen 00:40:20 So, you know, there's there's hope for us late bloomers for sure. But it's, That was cool. In the interview, we talk about how he has a weekly jam session with his fellow bluegrass players. And a few weeks ago, I actually went out to where he plays at the Street and Night Market, the Vintage Market. And it's just it was really cool. It was just him and 6 or 8 other people just sort of sitting around in a circle, drinking some beers and jamming, and it was really, really cool. I tried to take a video and I held the camera up and I started videotaping. I'm like, hey everyone, it's for patrons. Hey, patrons, is Greg here? And it was Sunny's initiative. And then, of course, at the end, I realized I took a photo. Oh well.

Ed 00:40:58 I have some video I actually saw. I saw them do pretty much the same thing, but it was inside. So I do have some video that we'll be able to post for, for listeners.

Ed 00:41:08 but but as Sonny said in the interview, I love the fact that they really focus on the social aspect of the music. So it's it's not just, hey, we play bluegrass. They have almost like an ideology about it where, hey, we're going to do, you know, it's mostly unplugged. Like, obviously sometimes they have microphones, but it's, it's acoustic and then it's it's social, which means they just sit in a group and play songs and trade solos. I love that aspect of it.

Greg Jorgensen 00:41:38 Great stuff. So everyone head to their website which Sonni mentions and check out their stuff. They have some events coming up that we are going to be at, and I hope to see you there. Good stuff. So thanks Sonny. It was a great, great chat.

Ed 00:41:50 Thanks, Tony. It was a blast.

Greg Jorgensen 00:41:52 Yeah. All right, let's do something we call. Would you rather wear one of us picks? Two contrasting situations tied to Thailand to debate and choose which one we'd prefer.

Greg Jorgensen 00:42:01 Now, this weekend, I got a question for you. A hypothetical throw in your way.

Ed 00:42:05 All right, hit me.

Greg Jorgensen 00:42:06 Pretty simple. Hypothetical. Would you rather be a Thai person living in America who speaks no English? Or an American living in Thailand who speaks no Thai?

Ed 00:42:18 Okay. I mean, you know, in theory, this sounds like it should be a tricky thing, but unfortunately, it's it's easy because I think you're in more trouble in the West if you don't speak English than you are here. If you don't speak Thai. It's just. It's just an it's an unfair, unequal cultural thing. Just because, you know, because Thai people just have to put up with just all of us idiots who don't speak Thai.

Greg Jorgensen 00:42:48 It is unfair.

Ed 00:42:49 It's totally unfair. So, I mean, it should be. That should be in in a fair and just world. That should be a very difficult question with like, nuances, you know. But but I think because the world is so unfair and being a native English speaker, it's just it's such a natural advantage that I think it would be quite rough.

Ed 00:43:08 Obviously there are communities, you know, there's a Thai community in the US, a big Thai community in LA. Yeah, a huge Thai community in Boston. So if you were if you were in the States speaking Thai with no English, you you could survive. I mean, you would just stick to other Thai people, but the US is I don't want to say it's unfriendly to people. I guess it is. I mean, in a way, It's just you're just expected to speak English, and people just look at you like you're crazy. Like, what's wrong with you? Like, how could you not? You know. How could you not speak? You know that's how it is. And probably the US and Canada. It's like because English is so dominant worldwide that it's. And especially if you're untrammelled, like most Americans are, you just think it's kind of insane if someone doesn't speak English. You know what I mean? It's like.

Greg Jorgensen 00:43:57 Holy shit, Western countries, if you if you want to take part or be involved in any sort of civil discourse or.

Greg Jorgensen 00:44:02 That's right official, that's right lifestyle, then you pretty much need to speak some level of English. But here.

Ed 00:44:09 That's right. You could survive with. You can unfortunately, you can survive with zero tie. And you know, you and I have we're way beyond zero, but we're still at the lower tier and, and feel pretty guilty about it. so it you can so listeners out there, if you, you know, Thailand is quite friendly to people who don't be Thai, but it's still it's still a good idea to try to learn at least some. So I think it would be quite. Yeah, man, if you didn't speak any English, it'd be rough. And, you know, a lot of my students who have been exchange students, they say that, you know, some of them, you know, they go to the states in 10th or 11th grade and they they say to me, my English was so bad I barely spoke anything. But but then it becomes a sink or swim thing, you know, you get you get thrown into like a American public high school in 10th grade.

Ed 00:45:00 And so, yeah, the first two weeks you're you're bewildered, but you know, but then you, you it's sink or swim. So you you you you. So then by the end of the year, their English is ten times better.

Greg Jorgensen 00:45:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right, it is unfair. And I would much rather be here speaking. No Thai.

Ed 00:45:16 That's right. It should be a difficult question, but it's not.

Greg Jorgensen 00:45:20 Yeah.

Ed 00:45:21 All righty. A final thanks to our patrons who support the show. Patrons get a ton of cool perks and the warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that they're helping and are never ending. Quest for cool content. Find out more by clicking support on our website and connect with us online. We're Bangkok podcast on social media Bangkok podcast. Com on the web or simply Bangkok Podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from our listeners and always reply to our messages. Unless, of course, you're a PR agent who pitches clients who have no connection to Bangkok.

Greg Jorgensen 00:45:53 That's right.

Greg Jorgensen 00:45:54 You can also listen to each episode on YouTube. You can send us a voicemail through our website that we can feature on the show. Hit me up on blue Sky at BCC. Great. Thank you for listening, folks, and we'll see you back here next week.

Ed 00:46:04 No doubt.